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No, it is absolutely not. I'm not sure why you keep posting this as if it is definitive. Let me put it very clearly for you: it is not acceptable, in any shape

No, it is absolutely not. I'm not sure why you keep posting this as if it is definitive. Let me put it very clearly for you: it is not acceptable, in any shape or manner, to expect your users to have to "save themselves" from your product killing them every 5 seconds. If your product requires that, it is a bad product. Furthermore, your entire argument of "it's just a level 2 system..." falls apart when you consider that Tesla jumps through several marketing hoops to deceive people and make them believe it isn't just a level 2 system. When you visit Tesla's webpage on autopilot [1], the first and only thing you see at the top of the page are the following words in big, bold text: >Full Self-Driving Hardware on All Cars >All Tesla vehicles produced in our factory, including Model 3, have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver. It is not until you get to nearly the very bottom of the page that Tesla displays a disclaimer that "when we say 'full self-driving', we don't actually mean full self-driving, because that would be illegal and isn't available yet." There is only one single sentence, buried within a paragraph mid-page, that says drivers must remain alert and prepare to take over. The rest of the page is also filled with language indicating that autopilot is capable of turning itself, switching lanes itself, speeding itself up/slowing itself down, etc. It is not unreasonable whatsoever for someone to read this webpage and assume that autopilot will magically take them whereever they need to go. This webpage is in stark contrast to the reality, where autopilot will actively steer you into a concrete barrier and kill you if you do not babysit it. And to make things worse, Tesla apparently considers this to be a "feature". According to your Twitter, you own a Tesla, so it seems you have a little bit of fanboy-ist bias going on here. I'd suggest you take off the Tesla fanboy ballcap and consider how you would feel if this were a different product. If someone sold you a smartphone, but told you "this phone never requires charging because it has a mini nuclear reactor in it. Be careful though, because if you don't keep your eyes on the phone at all times and press the 'please don't explode and kill me' button every 5 minutes, you'll die!" would you be defending that phone in the same way you're defending Tesla? 1: https://www.tesla.com/autopilot https://www.tesla.com/autopilot

Matheus28 9y ago
>Let me put it very clearly for you: it is not acceptable, in any shape or manner, to expect your users to have to "save themselves" from your product killing them every 5 seconds. If your product requires that, it is a bad product. Yes it is. Otherwise you're asking all car manufacturers to stop selling cars. "I have to constantly keep my car between the lines or I'll cause an accident" is an acceptable standard. That's how every car on the road works today. The liability is on the user to operate it properly. You accuse the poster of fanboy-ism, but you don't realize how much Tesla tells the driver that they need to pay attention and keep their hands on the steering wheel while they're using autopilot. So maybe your lack of experience with the car makes you pull those baseless arguments. While I agree Tesla is deceptive with their wording and the way they sell their autopilot ("have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability"), it's not legally wrong. They have the hardware for it (according to them), but at the moment, the software they have is a glorified lane assist. They specifically mention in that same page: > Every driver is responsible for remaining alert and active when using Autopilot, and must be prepared to take action at any time.
- txcwpalpha 9y ago
  >That's how every car on the road works today. The liability is on the user to operate it properly. No, it is not. No other car on the market today actively steers you toward an obstacle. Every non-autopilot car would require the driver (or another human actor, such as another driver) to first put themselves in a dangerous situation before requiring they get themselves out of it. Tesla autopilot, on the other hand, puts the driver in a dangerous situation on it's own. That is the crucial, fundamental difference.
  - greglindahl 9y ago
    Er, no, there are other cars that steer. All of them are level 2 systems that could steer you wrong.
    - CaptainZapp 9y ago
      And which manufacturer actually refers to it as autopilot? I can only name one.
greglindahl 9y ago
Great research! Having used autopilot in my girlfriend’s car, I’m aware of the notifications when autopilot is turned on. You should check it out, instead of assuming that drivers only see the marketing materials you quote. Also, have you used any adaptive cruise control system? Because they break your rule.

Matheus28 9y ago

>Let me put it very clearly for you: it is not acceptable, in any shape or manner, to expect your users to have to "save themselves" from your product killing them every 5 seconds. If your product requires that, it is a bad product. Yes it is. Otherwise you're asking all car manufacturers to stop selling cars. "I have to constantly keep my car between the lines or I'll cause an accident" is an acceptable standard. That's how every car on the road works today. The liability is on the user to operate it properly. You accuse the poster of fanboy-ism, but you don't realize how much Tesla tells the driver that they need to pay attention and keep their hands on the steering wheel while they're using autopilot. So maybe your lack of experience with the car makes you pull those baseless arguments. While I agree Tesla is deceptive with their wording and the way they sell their autopilot ("have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability"), it's not legally wrong. They have the hardware for it (according to them), but at the moment, the software they have is a glorified lane assist. They specifically mention in that same page: > Every driver is responsible for remaining alert and active when using Autopilot, and must be prepared to take action at any time.

txcwpalpha 9y ago
>That's how every car on the road works today. The liability is on the user to operate it properly. No, it is not. No other car on the market today actively steers you toward an obstacle. Every non-autopilot car would require the driver (or another human actor, such as another driver) to first put themselves in a dangerous situation before requiring they get themselves out of it. Tesla autopilot, on the other hand, puts the driver in a dangerous situation on it's own. That is the crucial, fundamental difference.
- greglindahl 9y ago
  Er, no, there are other cars that steer. All of them are level 2 systems that could steer you wrong.
  - CaptainZapp 9y ago
    And which manufacturer actually refers to it as autopilot? I can only name one.

greglindahl 9y ago

Great research! Having used autopilot in my girlfriend’s car, I’m aware of the notifications when autopilot is turned on. You should check it out, instead of assuming that drivers only see the marketing materials you quote. Also, have you used any adaptive cruise control system? Because they break your rule.