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>In reality supply creation is constrained by real world factors such as time and labour supply and "just add more supply" is not so easy. It takes time. Ultim

>In reality supply creation is constrained by real world factors such as time and labour supply and "just add more supply" is not so easy. It takes time. Ultimately, supply is constrained by cost. And in Vancouver, that's not an issue - if the regulation allows it, converting a single family home to a multi-unit dwelling is so ridiculously profitable that the solution to the housing crisis is to simply change zoning to allow it, and then wait. "just add more supply" really is that easy if you let the market forces work. yes, it's going to take time, but this problem has been ongoing in Vancouver for much longer now than the amount of time needed to fix it.

munk-a 9y ago
Vancouver has some special geographic considerations that you need to consider and within the downtown core the conversion away from single family units is AFAIK completely done[1]. Density increases in the downtown core are now being down by removing lower density apartment/condo buildings and replacing them with higher density buildings. I am aware that the nearest city (New Westminster) is developing pretty actively, but there is a deadzone in between the two (Burnaby) that seems to have draconian NIMBY zoning laws. Generally speaking, Vancouver's housing crisis is pretty amazingly interesting and probably is more a result of the incredibly poor transit here[2] than anything else. [1] There may be some single family units remaining in the Denman neighborhood and there are some remaining in Strathcona (near east van.) as well as lots in Kitsilano and the south shore in general, but both of these areas are generally considered outside of the downtown core. [2] Oh yea, we have driverless trains, woo... but there are only three transit lines none of which connect to either of our major universities and poor management of the system has left the lines overcapacity.
- brailsafe 9y ago
  What makes you think transit is poor?
  - PakG1 9y ago
    Compare to a city with great transit, then you know. I used to think that Vancouver transit was great. Then I started working in Shenzhen. Shenzhen and Hong Kong are awesome at public transit, Vancouver sucks. Part of the problem is that it's difficult for public transit in Vancouver to be profitable because the population density is so low.
    - munk-a 9y ago
      I agree, and part of your message is one of my strong objections. Public transit shouldn't be measured in terms of income-cost for profitability, most commercial ventures come with externalities of some sort and public transit provides a strongly net positive externality effect, it helps to subsidize business costs (cheaper transit can be seen as a subsidy to wages), retail prices (again, paying less gas/time/whatever to purchase a good makes it cheaper and reduces amazon's advantage) and psychology (IMO wanderlust is a real human need, being stuck in pattern for too long lowers productivity) It's a public service and one that society should be happy to invest in. Governments that balance the books on public transit with accountants alone are acting against the societal good.
      - PakG1 9y ago
        Fair enough. When I said profitable, I used the wrong word for what I meant. What I meant to say was sustainable. Profitable public transit is easily sustainable. Unprofitable public transit, harder to make sustainable, requires a really serious government commitment, and there are so many other things that also seriously require government equipment. For example, if I had to choose between Vancouver having good public transit and good public health care, I'd choose good public health care. Of course in an ideal world, they'd find funding for two (and more) unprofitable public programs.
    - brailsafe 9y ago
      You're not incorrect, and I think it's always important to look higher and strive for that. However, it's also such an unhealthy and distasteful attitude to embrace. Now, I actually do say the same about the transit in the city I'm currently living in (Winnipeg, MB), but you have to consider the test case for what makes transit "suck". Let's use basic reliability as a measure for this. Can I expect a bus to be on time and get me to work? In Vancouver yes, in Winnipeg no. Can I expect constant time travel to the downtown core from a suburb? In Vancouver yes, in Winnipeg the bus might not show up. Is there better? Yes. In Zurich for example everything was impossibly on time every time, but the country's reputation is literally watches and money. Population density does play a huge part, which forces inadequate access to skytrains and so on, but you can still catch a bus, then use the same fare to get on the seabus, then the skytrain, then more buses, and maybe bring your bike so you can get that last mile in.
  - kahnpro 9y ago
    Come to Europe. Then go back to pretty much any North American city.
    - munk-a 9y ago
      Yup, or just go to an east coast city (though apparently NYC is sort of terrible right now). I'm originally from Boston and while the city isn't perfect it has a solid offering in terms of moving through the metropolitan area efficiently, whether you reside directly on a T line or not. Cities built before cars were as widespread as they are now had to put a lot more effort into making themselves livable and providing sane ways to move about the city locally (for daily needs) and regionally (for occasional needs)
    - brailsafe 9y ago
      I have, and would like to move there if I can manage it. Valid criticism to be sure, but I think it's a bit misguided to levy a statement like "Vancouver transit sucks". Because it doesn't. At the very least it's pretty good. No it's not Zurich or Schenzen, but it's also not Winnipeg, Manitoba.
- coughupalung 9y ago
  What makes you say that Burnaby is a deadzone? Metrotown, Brentwood, Lougheed all seem to be growing like crazy. I moved to Toronto a few years ago and I'm find myself surprised by new buildings every time I go back.
  - vkou 9y ago
    Not to mention Gilmore, Patterson, Edmonds...
  - munk-a 9y ago
    Burnaby heights has a real nice resident/commerce mix (but very poor transit and developers are forcing a lot of the commerce out). Metrotown is a good area, around the station the commerce is developed and there is plenty of density but going in any direction from it brings you through strip malls. Brentwood is weird... It is a new artificial neighborhood with plenty of Cactus Clubs and Starbucks but it doesn't have much natural commerce and there is very little in the area in terms of employment, I am afraid that neighborhood might suddenly collapse if the developers stop pouring money into it. Lougheed is fair, I would generally consider that part of the Burquitlam span. It's awkwardly spread out with the mall itself sitting in a sea of parking lots, that doesn't tend to help build a good neighborhood but it is thriving, possibly due to being within short reach of the box stores out United/Woolridge. Sorry, I was incorrect about Metrotown, it is a pretty nice city center but the rest of Burnaby suffers from west-coast suburb development, areas are either residential, res+light commerce or res+employers, it's hard to find a neighborhood where you can live, work and shop unless you're working in retail, and IMO a neighborhood that can't supply all three is going to fade away to pure residential in time due to NIMBYism.
- toasterlovin 9y ago
  Whenever I visit the greater Vancouver area, I’m struck by how much undeveloped land there is for a place with such insane house prices. Truly a head scratcher.
Tiktaalik 9y ago
You're absolutely correct. Vancouver is unlike SF in that it has no issues building new residential buildings. At the moment housing starts in Vancouver are at all time highs, unprecedented for decades, and yet vacancy remains sub zero and housing is very unaffordable. This suggests that even these unprecedented levels of supply creation are unable to meet demand, and there are more issues at play than a lack of supply.
- bdamm 9y ago
  This is even more clear when you contrast housing supply to population growth. Population growth in Vancouver, Canada has been stable; almost linear, and relatively low. Meanwhile, housing supply has exploded across the region. Yet, housing remains unobtainable to the vast majority of residents. What is going on? It clearly is not a supply problem, and perhaps even worse, there could be a massive supply glut that for reasons I can only speculate has not become available for occupancy.
  - bobthepanda 9y ago
    This is not necessarily indicative of anything; I don't if this applies to Vancouver, but a big portion of why DC and Manhattan have bustling residential demand despite having less population than their historical peaks is that there has been a general reduction in household size due to various factors. So you could have the same amount of people but a much higher amount of households.
  - mrgordon 9y ago
    Normally the news articles say its Chinese investors parking their money in Vancouver housing since it is likely to be stable compared to the yuan, etc.
    - msie 9y ago
      Ah yes, the Chinese investor bogeyman. Apparently there are enough millionaires to cause problems in so many cities around the globe. Yet latest figures put foreign ownership at around 10% max. Let's ignore low interest rates and Canadians bidding against themselves in a hot market.

munk-a 9y ago

Vancouver has some special geographic considerations that you need to consider and within the downtown core the conversion away from single family units is AFAIK completely done[1]. Density increases in the downtown core are now being down by removing lower density apartment/condo buildings and replacing them with higher density buildings. I am aware that the nearest city (New Westminster) is developing pretty actively, but there is a deadzone in between the two (Burnaby) that seems to have draconian NIMBY zoning laws. Generally speaking, Vancouver's housing crisis is pretty amazingly interesting and probably is more a result of the incredibly poor transit here[2] than anything else. [1] There may be some single family units remaining in the Denman neighborhood and there are some remaining in Strathcona (near east van.) as well as lots in Kitsilano and the south shore in general, but both of these areas are generally considered outside of the downtown core. [2] Oh yea, we have driverless trains, woo... but there are only three transit lines none of which connect to either of our major universities and poor management of the system has left the lines overcapacity.

brailsafe 9y ago
What makes you think transit is poor?
- PakG1 9y ago
  Compare to a city with great transit, then you know. I used to think that Vancouver transit was great. Then I started working in Shenzhen. Shenzhen and Hong Kong are awesome at public transit, Vancouver sucks. Part of the problem is that it's difficult for public transit in Vancouver to be profitable because the population density is so low.
  - munk-a 9y ago
    I agree, and part of your message is one of my strong objections. Public transit shouldn't be measured in terms of income-cost for profitability, most commercial ventures come with externalities of some sort and public transit provides a strongly net positive externality effect, it helps to subsidize business costs (cheaper transit can be seen as a subsidy to wages), retail prices (again, paying less gas/time/whatever to purchase a good makes it cheaper and reduces amazon's advantage) and psychology (IMO wanderlust is a real human need, being stuck in pattern for too long lowers productivity) It's a public service and one that society should be happy to invest in. Governments that balance the books on public transit with accountants alone are acting against the societal good.
    - PakG1 9y ago
      Fair enough. When I said profitable, I used the wrong word for what I meant. What I meant to say was sustainable. Profitable public transit is easily sustainable. Unprofitable public transit, harder to make sustainable, requires a really serious government commitment, and there are so many other things that also seriously require government equipment. For example, if I had to choose between Vancouver having good public transit and good public health care, I'd choose good public health care. Of course in an ideal world, they'd find funding for two (and more) unprofitable public programs.
  - brailsafe 9y ago
    You're not incorrect, and I think it's always important to look higher and strive for that. However, it's also such an unhealthy and distasteful attitude to embrace. Now, I actually do say the same about the transit in the city I'm currently living in (Winnipeg, MB), but you have to consider the test case for what makes transit "suck". Let's use basic reliability as a measure for this. Can I expect a bus to be on time and get me to work? In Vancouver yes, in Winnipeg no. Can I expect constant time travel to the downtown core from a suburb? In Vancouver yes, in Winnipeg the bus might not show up. Is there better? Yes. In Zurich for example everything was impossibly on time every time, but the country's reputation is literally watches and money. Population density does play a huge part, which forces inadequate access to skytrains and so on, but you can still catch a bus, then use the same fare to get on the seabus, then the skytrain, then more buses, and maybe bring your bike so you can get that last mile in.
- kahnpro 9y ago
  Come to Europe. Then go back to pretty much any North American city.
  - munk-a 9y ago
    Yup, or just go to an east coast city (though apparently NYC is sort of terrible right now). I'm originally from Boston and while the city isn't perfect it has a solid offering in terms of moving through the metropolitan area efficiently, whether you reside directly on a T line or not. Cities built before cars were as widespread as they are now had to put a lot more effort into making themselves livable and providing sane ways to move about the city locally (for daily needs) and regionally (for occasional needs)
  - brailsafe 9y ago
    I have, and would like to move there if I can manage it. Valid criticism to be sure, but I think it's a bit misguided to levy a statement like "Vancouver transit sucks". Because it doesn't. At the very least it's pretty good. No it's not Zurich or Schenzen, but it's also not Winnipeg, Manitoba.
coughupalung 9y ago
What makes you say that Burnaby is a deadzone? Metrotown, Brentwood, Lougheed all seem to be growing like crazy. I moved to Toronto a few years ago and I'm find myself surprised by new buildings every time I go back.
- vkou 9y ago
  Not to mention Gilmore, Patterson, Edmonds...
- munk-a 9y ago
  Burnaby heights has a real nice resident/commerce mix (but very poor transit and developers are forcing a lot of the commerce out). Metrotown is a good area, around the station the commerce is developed and there is plenty of density but going in any direction from it brings you through strip malls. Brentwood is weird... It is a new artificial neighborhood with plenty of Cactus Clubs and Starbucks but it doesn't have much natural commerce and there is very little in the area in terms of employment, I am afraid that neighborhood might suddenly collapse if the developers stop pouring money into it. Lougheed is fair, I would generally consider that part of the Burquitlam span. It's awkwardly spread out with the mall itself sitting in a sea of parking lots, that doesn't tend to help build a good neighborhood but it is thriving, possibly due to being within short reach of the box stores out United/Woolridge. Sorry, I was incorrect about Metrotown, it is a pretty nice city center but the rest of Burnaby suffers from west-coast suburb development, areas are either residential, res+light commerce or res+employers, it's hard to find a neighborhood where you can live, work and shop unless you're working in retail, and IMO a neighborhood that can't supply all three is going to fade away to pure residential in time due to NIMBYism.
toasterlovin 9y ago
Whenever I visit the greater Vancouver area, I’m struck by how much undeveloped land there is for a place with such insane house prices. Truly a head scratcher.

Tiktaalik 9y ago

You're absolutely correct. Vancouver is unlike SF in that it has no issues building new residential buildings. At the moment housing starts in Vancouver are at all time highs, unprecedented for decades, and yet vacancy remains sub zero and housing is very unaffordable. This suggests that even these unprecedented levels of supply creation are unable to meet demand, and there are more issues at play than a lack of supply.

bdamm 9y ago
This is even more clear when you contrast housing supply to population growth. Population growth in Vancouver, Canada has been stable; almost linear, and relatively low. Meanwhile, housing supply has exploded across the region. Yet, housing remains unobtainable to the vast majority of residents. What is going on? It clearly is not a supply problem, and perhaps even worse, there could be a massive supply glut that for reasons I can only speculate has not become available for occupancy.
- bobthepanda 9y ago
  This is not necessarily indicative of anything; I don't if this applies to Vancouver, but a big portion of why DC and Manhattan have bustling residential demand despite having less population than their historical peaks is that there has been a general reduction in household size due to various factors. So you could have the same amount of people but a much higher amount of households.
- mrgordon 9y ago
  Normally the news articles say its Chinese investors parking their money in Vancouver housing since it is likely to be stable compared to the yuan, etc.
  - msie 9y ago
    Ah yes, the Chinese investor bogeyman. Apparently there are enough millionaires to cause problems in so many cities around the globe. Yet latest figures put foreign ownership at around 10% max. Let's ignore low interest rates and Canadians bidding against themselves in a hot market.