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I've always been skeptical, and at times downright angry, of the vaccine-causes-autism group as frankly it's been nothing but conjecture and sky-is-falling. Thi

I've always been skeptical, and at times downright angry, of the vaccine-causes-autism group as frankly it's been nothing but conjecture and sky-is-falling. This case, though, seems to have been able to actually make a connection between the two (though the article makes it very clear, the vaccines did not cause autism, they aggravated an existing condition that brought about the autism). I know people will use this case as a "I'll never vaccinate my child!" issue, but that won't last once a kid dies of mumps or is paralyzed from polio for the first time in decades. Overall I think this is a good decision. We really don't know that vaccines are 100% safe, and especially in infants, and especially all of that at once. We do want vaccinations, but we need to be more careful about to whom and how we administer them, and this case will hopefully bring about a new realm of research into this and it's relationship with autism.

jules 16y ago
Another problem with not vaccinating your kids is that it can kill other kids. For example if your 10 year old gets the measles it's not a huge deal, but if because of that the neighbor baby gets the measles, that is a big deal.
- OpieCunningham 16y ago
  Wouldn't that be the neighbor's fault, having not vaccinated their child? If child X not being vaccinated and getting sick as a result is "not a huge deal", then it should apply that if child Y not being vaccinated and getting sick as a result is also "not a huge deal".
  - carbocation 16y ago
    Most vaccines are given several months after birth in order to allow the immune system to develop first. (Neonates have impaired adaptive immune systems. Although people are now experimenting with the concept of giving vaccinations at birth, this is still largely done only in the research context.) Thus, our youngest rely to a certain degree on herd immunity, which is the phenomenon being described by the parent post. In other words, it is a huge deal.
    - OpieCunningham 16y ago
      OK. So the risk is increased from existing (a pre-vaccine baby can catch a disease from another pre-vaccine baby) to existing slightly more (pre-vaccine baby catching disease from unvaccinated child). Before I can agree that is a "huge deal", I'd like to see some numbers on the degree this actually happens vs. the existing non-huge deal of pre-vaccinated baby transmission to pre-vaccinated baby.
      - carbocation 16y ago
        Great! I'd encourage you to make use of resources such as http://www.pubmed.gov/ http://www.pubmed.gov/ to find reliable sources to help you answer your questions.
      - smokey_the_bear 16y ago
        It's happening in California right now with whooping cough - http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19363-whooping-cough-outbreak-could-be-worst-in-50-years.html http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19363-whooping-cough-o...
        OpieCunningham 16y ago
        Thanks for the link! Definitely is an issue.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - araneae 16y ago
    That would probably be the case of only one child became infected, and that child in infected no one else. However, if there are a sufficiently high number of susceptible people, an epidemic can occur (i.e. an event where an exponentially growing number of people become infected.) That's really what we worry about.
  - jonhendry 16y ago
    Keep in mind the existence of immune-compromised people, who are more susceptible due to illness, or as a result of treatment (anti-rejection drugs, chemo, etc).
- iterationx 16y ago
  More people died from the 1976 flu vaccine than died from the 1976 flu. You seem to imply that the government should be able to dictate what people put in their bodies for the good of all of society, which is the antithesis of freedom as I see it.
tensor 16y ago
(though the article makes it very clear, the vaccines did not cause autism, they aggravated an existing condition that brought about the autism) Did they really show that? It doesn't sound like it. From: http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1721109,00.html http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1721109,00.ht... 'That decision, however, comes as a surprise to experts on mitochondrial disorders. In response to the Poling case, the United Mitochondrial Disease Foundation has released a statement saying, "There are no scientific studies documenting that childhood vaccinations cause mitochondrial diseases or worsen mitochondrial disease symptoms."'
pavel_lishin 16y ago
> that won't last once a kid dies of mumps or is paralyzed from polio for the first time in decades. I wonder how awful it's going to be that kid's parent.

jules 16y ago

Another problem with not vaccinating your kids is that it can kill other kids. For example if your 10 year old gets the measles it's not a huge deal, but if because of that the neighbor baby gets the measles, that is a big deal.

OpieCunningham 16y ago
Wouldn't that be the neighbor's fault, having not vaccinated their child? If child X not being vaccinated and getting sick as a result is "not a huge deal", then it should apply that if child Y not being vaccinated and getting sick as a result is also "not a huge deal".
- carbocation 16y ago
  Most vaccines are given several months after birth in order to allow the immune system to develop first. (Neonates have impaired adaptive immune systems. Although people are now experimenting with the concept of giving vaccinations at birth, this is still largely done only in the research context.) Thus, our youngest rely to a certain degree on herd immunity, which is the phenomenon being described by the parent post. In other words, it is a huge deal.
  - OpieCunningham 16y ago
    OK. So the risk is increased from existing (a pre-vaccine baby can catch a disease from another pre-vaccine baby) to existing slightly more (pre-vaccine baby catching disease from unvaccinated child). Before I can agree that is a "huge deal", I'd like to see some numbers on the degree this actually happens vs. the existing non-huge deal of pre-vaccinated baby transmission to pre-vaccinated baby.
    - carbocation 16y ago
      Great! I'd encourage you to make use of resources such as http://www.pubmed.gov/ http://www.pubmed.gov/ to find reliable sources to help you answer your questions.
    - smokey_the_bear 16y ago
      It's happening in California right now with whooping cough - http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19363-whooping-cough-outbreak-could-be-worst-in-50-years.html http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19363-whooping-cough-o...
      - OpieCunningham 16y ago
        Thanks for the link! Definitely is an issue.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- araneae 16y ago
  That would probably be the case of only one child became infected, and that child in infected no one else. However, if there are a sufficiently high number of susceptible people, an epidemic can occur (i.e. an event where an exponentially growing number of people become infected.) That's really what we worry about.
- jonhendry 16y ago
  Keep in mind the existence of immune-compromised people, who are more susceptible due to illness, or as a result of treatment (anti-rejection drugs, chemo, etc).
iterationx 16y ago
More people died from the 1976 flu vaccine than died from the 1976 flu. You seem to imply that the government should be able to dictate what people put in their bodies for the good of all of society, which is the antithesis of freedom as I see it.

tensor 16y ago

(though the article makes it very clear, the vaccines did not cause autism, they aggravated an existing condition that brought about the autism) Did they really show that? It doesn't sound like it. From: http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1721109,00.html http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1721109,00.ht... 'That decision, however, comes as a surprise to experts on mitochondrial disorders. In response to the Poling case, the United Mitochondrial Disease Foundation has released a statement saying, "There are no scientific studies documenting that childhood vaccinations cause mitochondrial diseases or worsen mitochondrial disease symptoms."'

pavel_lishin 16y ago

> that won't last once a kid dies of mumps or is paralyzed from polio for the first time in decades. I wonder how awful it's going to be that kid's parent.