3 ms·

This is great and all, but NY is still an at-will employment state, right? Sure they wouldn't be able to fire you for _this_ specifically, but they wouldn't ha

This is great and all, but NY is still an at-will employment state, right? Sure they wouldn't be able to fire you for _this_ specifically, but they wouldn't have to fish long to catch some other reason to let you go if they want to.

jdoliner 9y ago
I was under the impression the point of at will employment is that you don't need a reason to fire someone. That's why most companies don't give reasons, or if they do they're generic and meaningless: i.e. "this isn't a good fit... culture wise."
- classichasclass 9y ago
  As a practical matter, though, you probably have to come up with some reason to prevent the employee filling in the blank with some sort of protected-class discrimination. "Culture fit" does sound nice and generic for that purpose.
  - lotsofpulp 9y ago
    Technically, you don't. Push comes to shove, employee would have to prove discrimination, which is near impossible. But if the company has a decent amount of assets, some enterprising lawyer can decide to be a thorn and say well the company might settle to make legal costs go away. Which is where personal improvement plans come in, so that if you are threatened with a discrimination lawsuit, the accuser knows they're not going to get anywhere so they won't waste your time.
ubernostrum 9y ago
Even in "at will" states (which is 49/50 US states, or 50/50 depending on how you interpret Montana's approach), there are some prohibitions on what companies can do. And the "we didn't fire this employee for (prohibited reason), we fired them for something completely unrelated" thing is not novel. State labor departments are extremely familiar with it.
- SmellTheGlove 9y ago
  Sure, but disputes cost time and money. You don't need novelty to have the deeper pockets jam things up in arb/litigation. Sorry, I'm pretty cynical when it comes to employees rights in the US. I have no direct personal experience that causes me to be, but I somehow ended up this way :)
  - ubernostrum 9y ago
    A lot depends on how active your state labor department is. There certainly are states where they just won't care. There are other states where they'll actually do something for you.

jdoliner 9y ago

I was under the impression the point of at will employment is that you don't need a reason to fire someone. That's why most companies don't give reasons, or if they do they're generic and meaningless: i.e. "this isn't a good fit... culture wise."

classichasclass 9y ago
As a practical matter, though, you probably have to come up with some reason to prevent the employee filling in the blank with some sort of protected-class discrimination. "Culture fit" does sound nice and generic for that purpose.
- lotsofpulp 9y ago
  Technically, you don't. Push comes to shove, employee would have to prove discrimination, which is near impossible. But if the company has a decent amount of assets, some enterprising lawyer can decide to be a thorn and say well the company might settle to make legal costs go away. Which is where personal improvement plans come in, so that if you are threatened with a discrimination lawsuit, the accuser knows they're not going to get anywhere so they won't waste your time.

ubernostrum 9y ago

Even in "at will" states (which is 49/50 US states, or 50/50 depending on how you interpret Montana's approach), there are some prohibitions on what companies can do. And the "we didn't fire this employee for (prohibited reason), we fired them for something completely unrelated" thing is not novel. State labor departments are extremely familiar with it.

SmellTheGlove 9y ago
Sure, but disputes cost time and money. You don't need novelty to have the deeper pockets jam things up in arb/litigation. Sorry, I'm pretty cynical when it comes to employees rights in the US. I have no direct personal experience that causes me to be, but I somehow ended up this way :)
- ubernostrum 9y ago
  A lot depends on how active your state labor department is. There certainly are states where they just won't care. There are other states where they'll actually do something for you.