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I'm a little confused about what you mean by shareholder capitalism, and how that would pertain to an employer's loyalty to their employees. Joint-stock corpor

I'm a little confused about what you mean by shareholder capitalism, and how that would pertain to an employer's loyalty to their employees. Joint-stock corporations have been around for several hundred years, and limited liability has been a legal concept in American law for almost 200 years. Employer loyalty may have gone down in the past few generations, but attributing that to shareholder capitalism seems vague and unfounded. Perhaps you mean something else?

maxxxxx 9y ago
I was around in the 80s when suddenly shareholder value was the main driver of companies. Before that there was more of an understanding that the relationship between employer, employees and community was mutual and should benefit all. Then slowly the attitude became that the only responsibility of a company was to the shareholders and nobody else (and no, there is no legal obligation for a company to do this. Their only obligation is to engage in lawful business). This led to underfunding of pensions, layoffs and wage stagnation. Essentially shifting of benefits from employees to shareholders. I think in the 50s a lot of CEOs would have been embarrassed to announce layoffs while raising their own pay. Now that's normal.
- lliamander 9y ago
  Fair enough, but the notion of "shareholder primacy" has been around since the early 1900s. My understanding of the shift that occurred in the latter part of the 20th century was that businesses became less dependent upon fixed local communities. Part of it was that the communities themselves were dispersing (increased geographic mobility among the populace). But other factors include: - a shift from capital-intensive industries like resource extraction and manufacturing, to service industries - the opening of foreign labor markets
  - maxxxxx 9y ago
    " Fair enough, but the notion of "shareholder primacy" has been around since the early 1900s." I started hearing about it with Jack Welch ("neutron jack"), GE and others. There was a noticeable change in attitude. "Greed is good". Layoffs were good for the share price.
    - lliamander 9y ago
      Interesting. I'll have to look into those references.
      - maxxxxx 9y ago
        Read this: https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevedenning/2017/04/27/harvard-business-review-the-pernicious-nonsense-of-maximizing-shareholder-value/#3d0320d471f0 https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevedenning/2017/04/27/harvard... It started in the 70s. As far as I know GE and Jack Welch were the poster child of this movement.

maxxxxx 9y ago

I was around in the 80s when suddenly shareholder value was the main driver of companies. Before that there was more of an understanding that the relationship between employer, employees and community was mutual and should benefit all. Then slowly the attitude became that the only responsibility of a company was to the shareholders and nobody else (and no, there is no legal obligation for a company to do this. Their only obligation is to engage in lawful business). This led to underfunding of pensions, layoffs and wage stagnation. Essentially shifting of benefits from employees to shareholders. I think in the 50s a lot of CEOs would have been embarrassed to announce layoffs while raising their own pay. Now that's normal.

lliamander 9y ago
Fair enough, but the notion of "shareholder primacy" has been around since the early 1900s. My understanding of the shift that occurred in the latter part of the 20th century was that businesses became less dependent upon fixed local communities. Part of it was that the communities themselves were dispersing (increased geographic mobility among the populace). But other factors include: - a shift from capital-intensive industries like resource extraction and manufacturing, to service industries - the opening of foreign labor markets
- maxxxxx 9y ago
  " Fair enough, but the notion of "shareholder primacy" has been around since the early 1900s." I started hearing about it with Jack Welch ("neutron jack"), GE and others. There was a noticeable change in attitude. "Greed is good". Layoffs were good for the share price.
  - lliamander 9y ago
    Interesting. I'll have to look into those references.
    - maxxxxx 9y ago
      Read this: https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevedenning/2017/04/27/harvard-business-review-the-pernicious-nonsense-of-maximizing-shareholder-value/#3d0320d471f0 https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevedenning/2017/04/27/harvard... It started in the 70s. As far as I know GE and Jack Welch were the poster child of this movement.