4 ms·

This is gonna be interesting as apparently the "Barrier" [1] bug is only in newer AP2 models per latest A/B tests done by cpddan (who did the very first crash r

by jijojv 9y ago

This is gonna be interesting as apparently the "Barrier" [1] bug is only in newer AP2 models per latest A/B tests done by cpddan (who did the very first crash reproduction scenario in Chicago [2]) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX0bR_EQ47E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX0bR_EQ47E Tesla Model X with AP2.5, SW 2018.6.1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zK2Om8Q0IA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zK2Om8Q0IA MS 75, AP1, SW 2018.6.1 1. https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/8a0jfh/autopil.. https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/8a0jfh/autopil.... "works for 6 months with zero issues. Then one Friday night you get an update. Everything works that weekend, and on your way to work on Monday. Then, 18 minutes into your commute home, it drives straight at a barrier at 60 MPH." 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QCF8tVqM3I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QCF8tVqM3I

o_____________o 9y ago
You know you're living in the future when a car driving you headlong into concrete is being correctly identified as a bug.
ansible 9y ago
I get that the vision system might have been fooled by how the lane widens before the split. What I don't get is why the radar doesn't pick up the barrier itself. It should have been getting a nice, healthy return signal from it, lots of metal at all kinds of angles. What I'm saying is, this is not a stealthy barrier.
- frafra 9y ago
  Radar is not active if the speed is higher than a specific threshold; it seems it is written in the manual.
  - ansible 9y ago
    > Radar is not active if the speed is higher than a specific threshold; it looks like it is written on the manual. I'm having trouble understanding why that would be the case. Why anyone wouldn't want the radar active when going down the highway. It is not as if it doesn't work at highway speed...
    - thebluehawk 9y ago
      That's because he is wrong. The radar is active at all speeds. In my experience, the radar basically only identifies cars and car shaped objects.
      - ansible 9y ago
        Radar on the Teslas, if it works like how I am familiar with, just detects "things". Things that have a decent radar return. This class of things does indeed include cars and other vehicles, but should also include walls and such. It is likely that they're using at least 2-D radar, so the system should be able to discriminate between an object directly in the path of travel, and one that is off to the side.
      - frafra 9y ago
        Sorry for not having quoted the exact paragraph in my very first comment. You can find the reference just above; it stops to work at around 90 mph (150 km/h) - Tesla Model S manual, Collision Avoidance Assist, page 95. Additional limitations are listed in page 96.
    - frafra 9y ago
      Exactly. "Automatic Emergency Braking operates only when driving between approximately 7 mph (10 km/h) and 90 mph (150 km/h)." -- Model S Manual (you can find it online)
- LoSboccacc 9y ago
  if road marks have priority over radars then tesla has a huge security hole on their hand. people can just paint brighter lines at a diagonal and crash them.
- kalleboo 9y ago
  > What I don't get is why the radar doesn't pick up the barrier itself All of these radar systems seem to have problems with stationary objects https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-autopilot-why-crash-radar/ https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-autopilot-why-crash-radar/
- secabeen 9y ago
  The thing is, there are a lot of stationary objects alongside/near major highways (signs, bridge supports, barriers, etc.). The radar systems are not 100% accurate about whether a particular stationary object is in the lane. In nearly all cases, stationary objects are not in your lane (if they were, the previous driver in the lane would have hit them). Thus the radars are tuned to detect non-stationary objects, as those are slowing cars, merging cars, etc. all of which are commonly in one's lane, and which require action from the Autopilot.
2bitencryption 9y ago
it definitely has to do with how the lane marker stripe on the road crosses into the other lane at the divider. you can see the Tesla hugs the left line divider. When the lanes split, the line doesn't -- it continues into the opposite lane. Regardless, that's a totally common occurrence on the road. It seems absurd that the car will trust a painted line over any type of radar or imagery showing a rapidly approaching wall... EDIT: watch both videos again -- Notice in the video where the car DOESN'T head towards the divider, the Tesla autopilot dashboard shows that it can see the car ahead of it. In the one where it DOES head towards the divider, it doesn't have a car in front of it to follow. I am wondering if in the first instance, the Tesla was confused by the lines, but saw a car ahead which cleared up its confusion (maybe it weighs trailing another car as better than following lines). In the other instance, all it had to work with was the lines (and all the radar and other stuff it has that should avoid all this...).
- dawnerd 9y ago
  I've mentioned before on here, it's clear teslas autopilot isn't really any better than other lane assist from other car manufacturers. At this point its just a neat party trick.
- cmurf 9y ago
  Notice in the video where the car DOESN'T head towards the divider, the Tesla autopilot dashboard shows that it can see the car ahead of it. Sorta ironic. In a sense autopilot is trusting/deferring to the judgment of the driver of the car in front of it for course determination.
  - 2bitencryption 9y ago
    I can see why that seems sensible, in a bizarre way. There's a car ahead of us. It took Path A and didn't crash into a deadly wall. Therefore, if we also take Path A, we won't crash into a deadly wall, regardless of what any paint on the ground says. but damn, tighten this stuff up when people's lives are on the line, please.
    - 9y ago

by jijojv 9y ago

o_____________o 9y ago

You know you're living in the future when a car driving you headlong into concrete is being correctly identified as a bug.

ansible 9y ago

I get that the vision system might have been fooled by how the lane widens before the split. What I don't get is why the radar doesn't pick up the barrier itself. It should have been getting a nice, healthy return signal from it, lots of metal at all kinds of angles. What I'm saying is, this is not a stealthy barrier.

frafra 9y ago
Radar is not active if the speed is higher than a specific threshold; it seems it is written in the manual.
- ansible 9y ago
  > Radar is not active if the speed is higher than a specific threshold; it looks like it is written on the manual. I'm having trouble understanding why that would be the case. Why anyone wouldn't want the radar active when going down the highway. It is not as if it doesn't work at highway speed...
  - thebluehawk 9y ago
    That's because he is wrong. The radar is active at all speeds. In my experience, the radar basically only identifies cars and car shaped objects.
    - ansible 9y ago
      Radar on the Teslas, if it works like how I am familiar with, just detects "things". Things that have a decent radar return. This class of things does indeed include cars and other vehicles, but should also include walls and such. It is likely that they're using at least 2-D radar, so the system should be able to discriminate between an object directly in the path of travel, and one that is off to the side.
    - frafra 9y ago
      Sorry for not having quoted the exact paragraph in my very first comment. You can find the reference just above; it stops to work at around 90 mph (150 km/h) - Tesla Model S manual, Collision Avoidance Assist, page 95. Additional limitations are listed in page 96.
  - frafra 9y ago
    Exactly. "Automatic Emergency Braking operates only when driving between approximately 7 mph (10 km/h) and 90 mph (150 km/h)." -- Model S Manual (you can find it online)
LoSboccacc 9y ago
if road marks have priority over radars then tesla has a huge security hole on their hand. people can just paint brighter lines at a diagonal and crash them.
kalleboo 9y ago
> What I don't get is why the radar doesn't pick up the barrier itself All of these radar systems seem to have problems with stationary objects https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-autopilot-why-crash-radar/ https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-autopilot-why-crash-radar/
secabeen 9y ago
The thing is, there are a lot of stationary objects alongside/near major highways (signs, bridge supports, barriers, etc.). The radar systems are not 100% accurate about whether a particular stationary object is in the lane. In nearly all cases, stationary objects are not in your lane (if they were, the previous driver in the lane would have hit them). Thus the radars are tuned to detect non-stationary objects, as those are slowing cars, merging cars, etc. all of which are commonly in one's lane, and which require action from the Autopilot.

2bitencryption 9y ago

it definitely has to do with how the lane marker stripe on the road crosses into the other lane at the divider. you can see the Tesla hugs the left line divider. When the lanes split, the line doesn't -- it continues into the opposite lane. Regardless, that's a totally common occurrence on the road. It seems absurd that the car will trust a painted line over any type of radar or imagery showing a rapidly approaching wall... EDIT: watch both videos again -- Notice in the video where the car DOESN'T head towards the divider, the Tesla autopilot dashboard shows that it can see the car ahead of it. In the one where it DOES head towards the divider, it doesn't have a car in front of it to follow. I am wondering if in the first instance, the Tesla was confused by the lines, but saw a car ahead which cleared up its confusion (maybe it weighs trailing another car as better than following lines). In the other instance, all it had to work with was the lines (and all the radar and other stuff it has that should avoid all this...).

dawnerd 9y ago
I've mentioned before on here, it's clear teslas autopilot isn't really any better than other lane assist from other car manufacturers. At this point its just a neat party trick.
cmurf 9y ago
Notice in the video where the car DOESN'T head towards the divider, the Tesla autopilot dashboard shows that it can see the car ahead of it. Sorta ironic. In a sense autopilot is trusting/deferring to the judgment of the driver of the car in front of it for course determination.
- 2bitencryption 9y ago
  I can see why that seems sensible, in a bizarre way. There's a car ahead of us. It took Path A and didn't crash into a deadly wall. Therefore, if we also take Path A, we won't crash into a deadly wall, regardless of what any paint on the ground says. but damn, tighten this stuff up when people's lives are on the line, please.
  - 9y ago