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Full statement: "We are very sorry for the family's loss. According to the family, Mr. Huang was well aware that Autopilot was not perfect and, specifically,

by otalp 9y ago

Full statement: "We are very sorry for the family's loss. According to the family, Mr. Huang was well aware that Autopilot was not perfect and, specifically, he told them it was not reliable in that exact location, yet he nonetheless engaged Autopilot at that location. The crash happened on a clear day with several hundred feet of visibility ahead, which means that the only way for this accident to have occurred is if Mr. Huang was not paying attention to the road, despite the car providing multiple warnings to do so. The fundamental premise of both moral and legal liability is a broken promise, and there was none here. Tesla is extremely clear that Autopilot requires the driver to be alert and have hands on the wheel. This reminder is made every single time Autopilot is engaged. If the system detects that hands are not on, it provides visual and auditory alerts. This happened several times on Mr. Huang's drive that day. We empathize with Mr. Huang's family, who are understandably facing loss and grief, but the false impression that Autopilot is unsafe will cause harm to others on the road. NHTSA found that even the early version of Tesla Autopilot resulted in 40% fewer crashes and it has improved substantially since then. The reason that other families are not on TV is because their loved ones are still alive."

ajross 9y ago
I'm normally an automation booster, but this is the wrong PR take for sure. I mean, to take this at face value it sounds like Tesla is saying its autopilot doesn't actually work and that if you don't continue to drive your car you're going to die. Maybe that will work in court, but it's not going to sell a lot of cars. I mean... clearly (hopefully) this isn't the attitude being exhibited inside the company. We all know there's a big strike team or whatnot that's been assembled to figure out exactly what happened, and how. We all know that it's probably a preventable failure. So that's what we need to see, Elon. Not this excuse making.
- rootlocus 9y ago
  > it sounds like Tesla is saying its autopilot doesn't actually work and that if you don't continue to drive your car you're going to die No, it doesn't just "sound like", it's actually > extremely clear that Autopilot requires the driver to be alert and have hands on the wheel. This reminder is made every single time Autopilot is engaged. If the system detects that hands are not on, it provides visual and auditory alerts.
  - deelowe 9y ago
    > Autopilot requires the driver to be alert and have hands on the wheel Clearly that's not the case, because if it "required" it the car would cease to function if you took your hands off the wheel. Instead, the Tesla continues to drive itself for some time and then after a few seconds warns you, but that's about it. If you want to see what a real requirement looks like, go explore any of the other car makers that have rolled out similar systems at this point. Those really, actually do require "the driver to be alert and have hands on the wheel." Has everyone forgotten Tesla's marketing from when they first rolled this poorly implemented system out?
- empath75 9y ago
  You’re going to die and Tesla is going to issue a press release saying that it’s your fault.
ProfessorLayton 9y ago
Wow, thats terse, especially considering "the early version" of Autopilot was using Mobileye's superior product!
- ricardobeat 9y ago
  I'm under the impression it was established that Mobileye's "superior" approach of hand-coding every possible situation would not cut it for full self-driving; they eschew deep learning in favor of having hundreds of people manually annotating images to uncover corner cases, plus a high reliance on maps, and were not happy with the level of automation Tesla wanted to push the system into.
  - rspeer 9y ago
    Can you blame them for not being happy with that? Why put "superior" in quotes if they were doing a better job? It sounds like Mobileye knows what it takes to make self-driving work given present technology, and Tesla didn't believe them and thought they were doing something so simple that their job could be automated. Every AI system that works and makes important decisions has corner cases that are designed by humans. Turns out that computer programmers do a job that matters!
otoburb 9y ago
>>If the system detects that hands are not on, it provides visual and auditory alerts. This happened several times on Mr. Huang's drive that day. If the system detects that hands are not on the wheel, perhaps something else should be done that will incentivize the driver to disengage Autopilot. Perhaps, send warnings alerts to law enforcement, insurance companies, or emergency contacts? Not sure what the fallback procedure is when Autopilot detects dangerous situations for extended periods of time - presumably disengaging completely would be worse, unless there's a safe way for Autopilot to pull over to the shoulder at the next available opportunity.
- Diederich 9y ago
  It first flashes, then beeps at you, and then disengages, so you start slowing down. I believe that if that happens, it won't re-engage again until after the car is stopped, shut off, and re-started.
  - Negitivefrags 9y ago
    To reenable autopilot you not only need to restart the car, but also go back into the car settings and turn it on again. When you do this it presents you with a window that outlines your liability that you must accept. It looks like this: https://boygeniusreport.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/autosteer-warning-tesla.jpg?quality=98&strip=all&strip=all https://boygeniusreport.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/autostee...
    - rightbyte 9y ago
      Oh ... is it real? Beta? Googleinh seems to confirm so. Other car manufacturer use trained personel for testing. I mean this is silly and should be illegal.
- John_KZ 9y ago
  >perhaps something else should be done that will incentivize the driver to disengage Autopilot. There's a very simple solution: Don't fucking include it in the car. Require the users to show up at the car dealership and sign a legal waiver to allow the activation of the new, insecure, and dangerous feature. There are no cars on the road with airbags that sometimes work and sometimes cause 3rd degree burns. There are no seatbelts that only work if the road isn't shiny. If you want to advertise the autopilot as a safety feature available to the general public, make sure it is one. If it's not, and you advertise it as such, you're legally liable for all the deaths your lie will cause. Personally, I'm technically knowledgable enough and I know enough about Tesla's history to be wary of their products and never trust them, but what if you're the average consumer? You would rightly expect any car automation system that comes pre-installed in your car and actually drives your god damn car to be safe enough to be there in the first place! Tesla is just taking advantage of the lack of legislation and standards on autonomous driving. They're selling a defective and dangerous product. They should be held liable for it.
throwaway6497 9y ago
This response from Tesla comes across as cold and shows no empathy to the victim's family. "We are very sorry for the family's loss" sounds so hollow after reading the rest of the statement. Does Tesla needs to give such strong public statement against the victim and his family? What is the point? Tesla is euphemistically saying - "Driver was stupid. Sorry but not really." This statement is really hurtful for the family and friends who got affected by this tragedy. Grow some heart Tesla. I am probably asking too much from a faceless corporation.
- FireBeyond 9y ago
  > Grow some heart Tesla. I am probably asking too much from a faceless corporation. I'd think that Tesla is the very antithesis of a faceless corporation, for better or worse.
neolefty 9y ago
People routinely ignore warnings. Did Mr. Huang normally ignore those warnings every day? If so, how are those warnings not just ass-covering by Tesla?
berg01 9y ago
So the crux here is the naming of the not-really-self-driving feature. This is not an Autopilot for cars. It "requires the driver to be alert and have hands on the wheel". That's a driving assist. Call it the world's best driving assist or whatever, but not Autopilot. (I have seen the usual reply from Tesla apologists that it's a good name because of its aircraft analogy. From a usability perspective that is just so... wrong.) I don't get why they continue down this path. Just rename the goddamn feature into something that actually makes sense. Tesla key people must be in some kind of Elon Musk reality distortion field.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > So the crux here is the naming of the not-really-self-driving feature It should be called, ”I’m Feeling Lucky.”
  - berg01 9y ago
    Love it!
  - jijojv 9y ago
    All their amazing technology is ”I’m Feeling Lucky.” https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/autopark-fail-dont-use-autopark-next-garage-pillars https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/autopark-fail-dont-use...
    - jijojv 9y ago
      Others like Bolt and Leaf give you 360 surround view parking. Tesla instead gives you Autopark but if it fails/crashes, you're at fault.
- Retric 9y ago
  Aircraft autopilot still require actual pilots to pay attention when flying. So really autopilot is the correct term, people are simply assuming it means a level 5 self driving car when it does not. “And really there’s a sweet spot you have to find where you use automation to relieve the pilot of some amount of workload.” http://nationalpost.com/news/world/disaster-on-autopilot-how-too-much-of-a-good-thing-can-lead-to-deadly-plane-crashes http://nationalpost.com/news/world/disaster-on-autopilot-how... 10 years ago airlines could have gone 100% automation, but a hybrid approach really has proven safer.
saas_co_de 9y ago
What a disgusting response.
efraim 9y ago
> The crash happened on a clear day with several hundred feet of visibility ahead, which means that the only way for this accident to have occurred is if Mr. Huang was not paying attention to the road, despite the car providing multiple warnings to do so. This is very misleading, he might have seen the barrier well in time but the car could have steered towards it in the last second, like it does in several of the videos demonstrating this issue.
- Obi_Juan_Kenobi 9y ago
  I think this is the critical factor. In the videos from others, the autopilot begins to move with the lane, but then crosses over into the barrier as it approaches. There's no way to anticipate that this is going to happen by simply looking ahead of you. There are no warning signs that something strange is about to occur. By the time you've processed that something is happening, it's well underway. If you were to simulate this, I wonder how many people would be able to properly react? I think this would be an interesting experiment; sit people in driving simulators and have them drive around for 30 minutes or something and randomly introduce this. Even in the context of an experiment where people are likely to be more attentive due to the novelty of the experience, I'd expect to see quite slow reactions with fairly high frequency.
euyyn 9y ago
> means that the only way for this accident to have occurred is if Mr. Huang was not paying attention to the road I think anyone that's ever developed software knows how naive (to be charitative) that reasoning is.
kalleboo 9y ago
> Autopilot was not perfect and, specifically, he told them it was not reliable in that exact location, yet he nonetheless engaged Autopilot at that location > Tesla is extremely clear that Autopilot requires the driver to be alert and have hands on the wheel > the false impression that Autopilot is unsafe will cause harm to others on the road "Autopilot is not perfect and you need to continually monitor and second guess what it's doing.... but it's not unsafe!" Sounds like some really mixed messages here.

by otalp 9y ago

ajross 9y ago

I'm normally an automation booster, but this is the wrong PR take for sure. I mean, to take this at face value it sounds like Tesla is saying its autopilot doesn't actually work and that if you don't continue to drive your car you're going to die. Maybe that will work in court, but it's not going to sell a lot of cars. I mean... clearly (hopefully) this isn't the attitude being exhibited inside the company. We all know there's a big strike team or whatnot that's been assembled to figure out exactly what happened, and how. We all know that it's probably a preventable failure. So that's what we need to see, Elon. Not this excuse making.

rootlocus 9y ago
> it sounds like Tesla is saying its autopilot doesn't actually work and that if you don't continue to drive your car you're going to die No, it doesn't just "sound like", it's actually > extremely clear that Autopilot requires the driver to be alert and have hands on the wheel. This reminder is made every single time Autopilot is engaged. If the system detects that hands are not on, it provides visual and auditory alerts.
- deelowe 9y ago
  > Autopilot requires the driver to be alert and have hands on the wheel Clearly that's not the case, because if it "required" it the car would cease to function if you took your hands off the wheel. Instead, the Tesla continues to drive itself for some time and then after a few seconds warns you, but that's about it. If you want to see what a real requirement looks like, go explore any of the other car makers that have rolled out similar systems at this point. Those really, actually do require "the driver to be alert and have hands on the wheel." Has everyone forgotten Tesla's marketing from when they first rolled this poorly implemented system out?
empath75 9y ago
You’re going to die and Tesla is going to issue a press release saying that it’s your fault.

ProfessorLayton 9y ago

Wow, thats terse, especially considering "the early version" of Autopilot was using Mobileye's superior product!

ricardobeat 9y ago
I'm under the impression it was established that Mobileye's "superior" approach of hand-coding every possible situation would not cut it for full self-driving; they eschew deep learning in favor of having hundreds of people manually annotating images to uncover corner cases, plus a high reliance on maps, and were not happy with the level of automation Tesla wanted to push the system into.
- rspeer 9y ago
  Can you blame them for not being happy with that? Why put "superior" in quotes if they were doing a better job? It sounds like Mobileye knows what it takes to make self-driving work given present technology, and Tesla didn't believe them and thought they were doing something so simple that their job could be automated. Every AI system that works and makes important decisions has corner cases that are designed by humans. Turns out that computer programmers do a job that matters!

otoburb 9y ago

>>If the system detects that hands are not on, it provides visual and auditory alerts. This happened several times on Mr. Huang's drive that day. If the system detects that hands are not on the wheel, perhaps something else should be done that will incentivize the driver to disengage Autopilot. Perhaps, send warnings alerts to law enforcement, insurance companies, or emergency contacts? Not sure what the fallback procedure is when Autopilot detects dangerous situations for extended periods of time - presumably disengaging completely would be worse, unless there's a safe way for Autopilot to pull over to the shoulder at the next available opportunity.

Diederich 9y ago
It first flashes, then beeps at you, and then disengages, so you start slowing down. I believe that if that happens, it won't re-engage again until after the car is stopped, shut off, and re-started.
- Negitivefrags 9y ago
  To reenable autopilot you not only need to restart the car, but also go back into the car settings and turn it on again. When you do this it presents you with a window that outlines your liability that you must accept. It looks like this: https://boygeniusreport.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/autosteer-warning-tesla.jpg?quality=98&strip=all&strip=all https://boygeniusreport.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/autostee...
  - rightbyte 9y ago
    Oh ... is it real? Beta? Googleinh seems to confirm so. Other car manufacturer use trained personel for testing. I mean this is silly and should be illegal.
John_KZ 9y ago
>perhaps something else should be done that will incentivize the driver to disengage Autopilot. There's a very simple solution: Don't fucking include it in the car. Require the users to show up at the car dealership and sign a legal waiver to allow the activation of the new, insecure, and dangerous feature. There are no cars on the road with airbags that sometimes work and sometimes cause 3rd degree burns. There are no seatbelts that only work if the road isn't shiny. If you want to advertise the autopilot as a safety feature available to the general public, make sure it is one. If it's not, and you advertise it as such, you're legally liable for all the deaths your lie will cause. Personally, I'm technically knowledgable enough and I know enough about Tesla's history to be wary of their products and never trust them, but what if you're the average consumer? You would rightly expect any car automation system that comes pre-installed in your car and actually drives your god damn car to be safe enough to be there in the first place! Tesla is just taking advantage of the lack of legislation and standards on autonomous driving. They're selling a defective and dangerous product. They should be held liable for it.

throwaway6497 9y ago

This response from Tesla comes across as cold and shows no empathy to the victim's family. "We are very sorry for the family's loss" sounds so hollow after reading the rest of the statement. Does Tesla needs to give such strong public statement against the victim and his family? What is the point? Tesla is euphemistically saying - "Driver was stupid. Sorry but not really." This statement is really hurtful for the family and friends who got affected by this tragedy. Grow some heart Tesla. I am probably asking too much from a faceless corporation.

FireBeyond 9y ago
> Grow some heart Tesla. I am probably asking too much from a faceless corporation. I'd think that Tesla is the very antithesis of a faceless corporation, for better or worse.

neolefty 9y ago

People routinely ignore warnings. Did Mr. Huang normally ignore those warnings every day? If so, how are those warnings not just ass-covering by Tesla?

berg01 9y ago

So the crux here is the naming of the not-really-self-driving feature. This is not an Autopilot for cars. It "requires the driver to be alert and have hands on the wheel". That's a driving assist. Call it the world's best driving assist or whatever, but not Autopilot. (I have seen the usual reply from Tesla apologists that it's a good name because of its aircraft analogy. From a usability perspective that is just so... wrong.) I don't get why they continue down this path. Just rename the goddamn feature into something that actually makes sense. Tesla key people must be in some kind of Elon Musk reality distortion field.

dragonwriter 9y ago
> So the crux here is the naming of the not-really-self-driving feature It should be called, ”I’m Feeling Lucky.”
- berg01 9y ago
  Love it!
- jijojv 9y ago
  All their amazing technology is ”I’m Feeling Lucky.” https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/autopark-fail-dont-use-autopark-next-garage-pillars https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/autopark-fail-dont-use...
  - jijojv 9y ago
    Others like Bolt and Leaf give you 360 surround view parking. Tesla instead gives you Autopark but if it fails/crashes, you're at fault.
Retric 9y ago
Aircraft autopilot still require actual pilots to pay attention when flying. So really autopilot is the correct term, people are simply assuming it means a level 5 self driving car when it does not. “And really there’s a sweet spot you have to find where you use automation to relieve the pilot of some amount of workload.” http://nationalpost.com/news/world/disaster-on-autopilot-how-too-much-of-a-good-thing-can-lead-to-deadly-plane-crashes http://nationalpost.com/news/world/disaster-on-autopilot-how... 10 years ago airlines could have gone 100% automation, but a hybrid approach really has proven safer.

saas_co_de 9y ago

What a disgusting response.

efraim 9y ago

> The crash happened on a clear day with several hundred feet of visibility ahead, which means that the only way for this accident to have occurred is if Mr. Huang was not paying attention to the road, despite the car providing multiple warnings to do so. This is very misleading, he might have seen the barrier well in time but the car could have steered towards it in the last second, like it does in several of the videos demonstrating this issue.

Obi_Juan_Kenobi 9y ago
I think this is the critical factor. In the videos from others, the autopilot begins to move with the lane, but then crosses over into the barrier as it approaches. There's no way to anticipate that this is going to happen by simply looking ahead of you. There are no warning signs that something strange is about to occur. By the time you've processed that something is happening, it's well underway. If you were to simulate this, I wonder how many people would be able to properly react? I think this would be an interesting experiment; sit people in driving simulators and have them drive around for 30 minutes or something and randomly introduce this. Even in the context of an experiment where people are likely to be more attentive due to the novelty of the experience, I'd expect to see quite slow reactions with fairly high frequency.

euyyn 9y ago

> means that the only way for this accident to have occurred is if Mr. Huang was not paying attention to the road I think anyone that's ever developed software knows how naive (to be charitative) that reasoning is.

kalleboo 9y ago

> Autopilot was not perfect and, specifically, he told them it was not reliable in that exact location, yet he nonetheless engaged Autopilot at that location > Tesla is extremely clear that Autopilot requires the driver to be alert and have hands on the wheel > the false impression that Autopilot is unsafe will cause harm to others on the road "Autopilot is not perfect and you need to continually monitor and second guess what it's doing.... but it's not unsafe!" Sounds like some really mixed messages here.