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But that's not what you suggested. You suggested a "proactive" approach by which I take you mean letting the kid hack on this stuff at least partly on his own.

But that's not what you suggested. You suggested a "proactive" approach by which I take you mean letting the kid hack on this stuff at least partly on his own. That _is_ a romanticized notion in our particular case. On his own, he quickly runs into obstacles, gets bored, and then fires up YouTube after about 5 minutes, in order to veg out. I do teach him programming, though. He also does some more with his math tutor that comes in on weekends. He is kind of frustrated with our efforts at educating him. He thinks he should be writing grade-A 3D games right away, even though he utterly lacks both the programming and the math skills to do so. My advice to start with something much simpler has been falling on deaf ears so far. Without structure, this particular 14 year old would not bathe, would not brush his teeth, would not do homework, would not properly eat, would not go outside or exercise, would not properly sleep, and would substitute all of the above with watching YouTube and playing Minecraft. So you can see why this is a concern.

rainbowmverse 9y ago
I think we just had a misunderstanding. Had my parents listened to all the advice given to them about me, I'd have ended up in conversion therapy, so I do understand. When it comes to advice, some people (maybe most) just want to bloviate, not elucidate. It sounds like you are being proactive (acting in anticipation of future problems, needs, or changes). The reason I suggested Minecraft modding and video-making in particular is: 1: It turns his current passive engagement with it into an active, creator role. Most Minecraft mods and media seem to be made by kids, or at least people who started when they were kids. I've read more than a few accounts from people who ended up in CS careers because of Minecraft. 2: Java and A/V are great skills to learn for a variety of possible career paths. Java also translates easily enough to C# and .NET, which also has plenty of career paths. I don't have kids, but I know enough parents to know how insecure they get when they realize how woefully unprepared their parents and society left them for it, and how often people give lots of useless unsolicited advice. I tried not to do that, but I can see how it might come off that way if you're constantly fending off useless, unwelcome advice and criticisms.
- throwaway84742 9y ago
  Sounds like we did misunderstand each other then. But still, regarding #1: in order to meaningfully, actively engage with something non-trivial like programming, it is necessary to overcome the initial learning curve. Most kids naturally have problems with that. Those problems are vastly exacerbated by having access to unlimited supply of bullshit online, which doesn't require any effort to consume. Dopamine response wins 100% of the time. This goes back to the Suzuki method, sort of. In order for a kid to actually enjoy a complicated endeavor he/she must have some baseline set of skills to not suck at it. Acquiring it is often not a pleasant thing even for adults, with lots of effort needed to get to anywhere near where a complex activity can become "fun", and a source of enjoyment. This is another one of those things I didn't have any problems with: I naturally started very simple and worked my way up. I was only able to do that because I didn't really have much else to do. My father threw away our TV when I was 10 years old and he never bought another one. :-)

rainbowmverse 9y ago

I think we just had a misunderstanding. Had my parents listened to all the advice given to them about me, I'd have ended up in conversion therapy, so I do understand. When it comes to advice, some people (maybe most) just want to bloviate, not elucidate. It sounds like you are being proactive (acting in anticipation of future problems, needs, or changes). The reason I suggested Minecraft modding and video-making in particular is: 1: It turns his current passive engagement with it into an active, creator role. Most Minecraft mods and media seem to be made by kids, or at least people who started when they were kids. I've read more than a few accounts from people who ended up in CS careers because of Minecraft. 2: Java and A/V are great skills to learn for a variety of possible career paths. Java also translates easily enough to C# and .NET, which also has plenty of career paths. I don't have kids, but I know enough parents to know how insecure they get when they realize how woefully unprepared their parents and society left them for it, and how often people give lots of useless unsolicited advice. I tried not to do that, but I can see how it might come off that way if you're constantly fending off useless, unwelcome advice and criticisms.

throwaway84742 9y ago
Sounds like we did misunderstand each other then. But still, regarding #1: in order to meaningfully, actively engage with something non-trivial like programming, it is necessary to overcome the initial learning curve. Most kids naturally have problems with that. Those problems are vastly exacerbated by having access to unlimited supply of bullshit online, which doesn't require any effort to consume. Dopamine response wins 100% of the time. This goes back to the Suzuki method, sort of. In order for a kid to actually enjoy a complicated endeavor he/she must have some baseline set of skills to not suck at it. Acquiring it is often not a pleasant thing even for adults, with lots of effort needed to get to anywhere near where a complex activity can become "fun", and a source of enjoyment. This is another one of those things I didn't have any problems with: I naturally started very simple and worked my way up. I was only able to do that because I didn't really have much else to do. My father threw away our TV when I was 10 years old and he never bought another one. :-)