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Isn’t most of this coming from China and if so how much impact can European laws really have on the problem?

latch 8y ago
There's a fine line between ignorance and racism and presenting a fact as a question isn't particularly clever. If you don't know, ask (or better yet, research and educate the rest of us), but don't ask and imply (with no source). The idea that laws affecting 770 million of the most affluent consumers won't have an impact is laughable. The view of "why should we do things if they aren't", is sad.
- smsm42 8y ago
  How it is racism to find out - either by question or by statement - the actual source of the plastic? Is attributing any issues to anybody other than "770 million of the most affluent consumers" racist? This is completely insane. One can not solve a problem while ignoring the factual sources of it and being driven by ideology instead of reality.
  - latch 8y ago
    It's a leading question which is based on what? Either provide a source, or at least avoid singling a group out. If you say "China produces most of the plastic waste" without any background, that's just prejudice. We constantly see this ( blaming specific groups for all the pollution, or crime, or job stealing, or...). Changing that to "Doesn't China produce most of the plastic waste?" is not better. To add actual information to this, it looks like China is a major polluter, but that until the recent Chinese ban (discussed on HN) Europe (and America) was exporting a lot of garbage to China. According to [1] Europe exported 1.6 million tons of plastic to China in 2016 [1] https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-recycling-china-trash-ban-forces-europe-to-confront-its-waste-problem/ https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-recycling-china-trash...
    - smsm42 8y ago
      > It's a leading question which is based on what? On facts. If you read the comments, there are multiple sources for this claim. Even if the particular commenter did not have the source link handy, this is discussed a lot and they might have heard about it or read about it in relevant places and remembered the fact. Even if they didn't, assuming that the country with world's biggest population, one of the world's biggest manufacturing bases and known for not-exactly-excellent attitudes toward environmental issues may be a major source of waste is not an unreasonable assumption. It could be wrong (which it isn't, but it could theoretically be), but jumping from that assumption directly to "racism" accusation is plain insane and can only be aimed at preventing proper factual discussion instead of facilitating it. I think you should apologize for mentioning "racism", especially that you yourself admit China is a major polluter (not that it would be racist even if it weren't but even more in this case).
    - Dirlewanger 8y ago
      Here's a source (http://www.dw.com/en/almost-all-plastic-in-the-ocean-comes-from-just-10-rivers/a-41581484 http://www.dw.com/en/almost-all-plastic-in-the-ocean-comes-f...) that says most of it comes from 10 rivers, most of which are in China. So it is fair to blame this on China. Shouldn't be surprising, as this is just one item on a litany of environmental travesties they've committed.
emmelaich 8y ago
Mostly from Asia generally. India, Thailand, Indonesia, Phillipines especially. There was a study mentioned here on HN a few months ago. If someone wants it I can look it up for them. There is still a case to be made that we (the more developed world) should practice what we preach and set a good example. Personally I re-use all my plastic bags and they all end up in land-fill.
craftyguy 8y ago
They could put pressure on those countries to change. Economic sanctions, for example, do work to some degree.
philbarr 8y ago
A lot of it is going to China [0] for them to get rid of. Or at least it was [1] [0] http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42456584 http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42456584 [1] http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-42512361/why-china-doesn-t-want-your-waste-anymore http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-42512361/why-china-doesn-t-...
robotkdick 8y ago
Keep in mind that the US has been shipping plastic to Asia for recycling for years. China just put a stop to it, and now the plastic is piling up in the US. It's a serious crisis, the most serious perhaps, but only if we don't do anything. #boycottplastic

There's a fine line between ignorance and racism and presenting a fact as a question isn't particularly clever. If you don't know, ask (or better yet, research and educate the rest of us), but don't ask and imply (with no source). The idea that laws affecting 770 million of the most affluent consumers won't have an impact is laughable. The view of "why should we do things if they aren't", is sad.

smsm42 8y ago
How it is racism to find out - either by question or by statement - the actual source of the plastic? Is attributing any issues to anybody other than "770 million of the most affluent consumers" racist? This is completely insane. One can not solve a problem while ignoring the factual sources of it and being driven by ideology instead of reality.
- latch 8y ago
  It's a leading question which is based on what? Either provide a source, or at least avoid singling a group out. If you say "China produces most of the plastic waste" without any background, that's just prejudice. We constantly see this ( blaming specific groups for all the pollution, or crime, or job stealing, or...). Changing that to "Doesn't China produce most of the plastic waste?" is not better. To add actual information to this, it looks like China is a major polluter, but that until the recent Chinese ban (discussed on HN) Europe (and America) was exporting a lot of garbage to China. According to [1] Europe exported 1.6 million tons of plastic to China in 2016 [1] https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-recycling-china-trash-ban-forces-europe-to-confront-its-waste-problem/ https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-recycling-china-trash...
  - smsm42 8y ago
    > It's a leading question which is based on what? On facts. If you read the comments, there are multiple sources for this claim. Even if the particular commenter did not have the source link handy, this is discussed a lot and they might have heard about it or read about it in relevant places and remembered the fact. Even if they didn't, assuming that the country with world's biggest population, one of the world's biggest manufacturing bases and known for not-exactly-excellent attitudes toward environmental issues may be a major source of waste is not an unreasonable assumption. It could be wrong (which it isn't, but it could theoretically be), but jumping from that assumption directly to "racism" accusation is plain insane and can only be aimed at preventing proper factual discussion instead of facilitating it. I think you should apologize for mentioning "racism", especially that you yourself admit China is a major polluter (not that it would be racist even if it weren't but even more in this case).
  - Dirlewanger 8y ago
    Here's a source (http://www.dw.com/en/almost-all-plastic-in-the-ocean-comes-from-just-10-rivers/a-41581484 http://www.dw.com/en/almost-all-plastic-in-the-ocean-comes-f...) that says most of it comes from 10 rivers, most of which are in China. So it is fair to blame this on China. Shouldn't be surprising, as this is just one item on a litany of environmental travesties they've committed.

emmelaich 8y ago

Mostly from Asia generally. India, Thailand, Indonesia, Phillipines especially. There was a study mentioned here on HN a few months ago. If someone wants it I can look it up for them. There is still a case to be made that we (the more developed world) should practice what we preach and set a good example. Personally I re-use all my plastic bags and they all end up in land-fill.

craftyguy 8y ago

They could put pressure on those countries to change. Economic sanctions, for example, do work to some degree.

philbarr 8y ago

A lot of it is going to China [0] for them to get rid of. Or at least it was [1] [0] http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42456584 http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42456584 [1] http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-42512361/why-china-doesn-t-want-your-waste-anymore http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-42512361/why-china-doesn-t-...

robotkdick 8y ago

Keep in mind that the US has been shipping plastic to Asia for recycling for years. China just put a stop to it, and now the plastic is piling up in the US. It's a serious crisis, the most serious perhaps, but only if we don't do anything. #boycottplastic