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What happened to the old Unix philosophy about doing nothing on success (a.k.a. "Rule of Silence")? That is: $ vault kv undelete -versions=2 secret/my-secre

What happened to the old Unix philosophy about doing nothing on success (a.k.a. "Rule of Silence")? That is: $ vault kv undelete -versions=2 secret/my-secret Success! Data written to: secret/undelete/my-secret should instead be: $ vault kv undelete -versions=2 secret/my-secret $ Also, the screenshots on the Vault OSS UI Introduction page [0] are completely unintelligible. [0]: https://www.hashicorp.com/resources/vault-oss-ui-introduction https://www.hashicorp.com/resources/vault-oss-ui-introductio...

jrs95 9y ago
For your average user I think this is confusing and not good UX. Since a lot of people using this tool will be developers with MacBooks and not hardcore *nix users, it’s probably a good choice to ignore that convention.
- otp124 9y ago
  > For your average user I think this is confusing and not good UX. I disagree, as the average vault user is likely someone familiar with Unix (though there is a Windows binary). Here is an example that I just ran on my machine.. very silent. $ mkdir source $ cd source $ touch file $ rm file $
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - onmai-xyz 9y ago
    $ rm file $ echo $? $ 0 Silent, unless you go looking. The return value of the last executed command is available as $?. I picked this up at http://www.rsync.net/resources/howto/remote_commands.html http://www.rsync.net/resources/howto/remote_commands.html for running commands over ssh and not seeing the console output.
- emddudley 9y ago
  Confirming success is only necessary when users do not trust the program (due to bugs, confusing UI/API, etc.). They will seek reassurance that their actions are successful. However, if users trust the program then no confirmation is needed. We should be creating stable and predictable programs so that we can maintain users' trust. Otherwise we have to introduce hand-holding which degrades everyone's experience through extra cognitive overhead and user interaction.
dalore 9y ago
And yet a lot of unix tools also have a -q quiet mode to not output anything unless an error. cron adopts this philosophy in that you get an email if there is any output at all. There is a tool called chronic which you can use as a wrapper which captures stdout and only ouput if the return code is an error: $ chronic vault kv undelete -versions=2 secret/my-secret $

jrs95 9y ago

For your average user I think this is confusing and not good UX. Since a lot of people using this tool will be developers with MacBooks and not hardcore *nix users, it’s probably a good choice to ignore that convention.

otp124 9y ago
> For your average user I think this is confusing and not good UX. I disagree, as the average vault user is likely someone familiar with Unix (though there is a Windows binary). Here is an example that I just ran on my machine.. very silent. $ mkdir source $ cd source $ touch file $ rm file $
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- onmai-xyz 9y ago
  $ rm file $ echo $? $ 0 Silent, unless you go looking. The return value of the last executed command is available as $?. I picked this up at http://www.rsync.net/resources/howto/remote_commands.html http://www.rsync.net/resources/howto/remote_commands.html for running commands over ssh and not seeing the console output.
emddudley 9y ago
Confirming success is only necessary when users do not trust the program (due to bugs, confusing UI/API, etc.). They will seek reassurance that their actions are successful. However, if users trust the program then no confirmation is needed. We should be creating stable and predictable programs so that we can maintain users' trust. Otherwise we have to introduce hand-holding which degrades everyone's experience through extra cognitive overhead and user interaction.

dalore 9y ago

And yet a lot of unix tools also have a -q quiet mode to not output anything unless an error. cron adopts this philosophy in that you get an email if there is any output at all. There is a tool called chronic which you can use as a wrapper which captures stdout and only ouput if the return code is an error: $ chronic vault kv undelete -versions=2 secret/my-secret $