4 ms·

The concept of regulatory or legislative capture actually a mainstream one; hardly deserves the conspiracy label. Further, the author's claim is well supported

The concept of regulatory or legislative capture actually a mainstream one; hardly deserves the conspiracy label. Further, the author's claim is well supported by ongoing legislative efforts as well as those efforts of the administrative agencies. There's a legitimate and level-headed reason to have concern. I'd call it skepticism or pessism at worst.

simias 9y ago
I'm not saying that regulatory capture doesn't happen, I'm saying that it doesn't necessarily happen every time a new piece of regulation is introduced. Saying that any hypothetical regulation introduced after this Facebook fiasco (and all the other data breaches of late) will benefit Facebook and hurt competitors is not exactly what I would call level-headed skepticism. Doesn't mean that we shouldn't be very careful about what comes out of this whole discussion and maybe make our voices heard if we deem it unfair or ineffective but we're not there yet.
- mkirklions 9y ago
  Easy to say without seeing the proposals. Regulation can be awful or insignificant. My state requires strippers to fill out a license and pay 50$. Changed nothing. However, my state also requires you to put down 1M to start a bank. Thats definitely regulatory capture. Its too soon to know whats going to be required of data. Databases might become significantly worse to program and require teams to maintain at government standards.
  - danans 9y ago
    > Regulation can be awful or insignificant. No benefits at all, really? Remember pre-regulation leaded gasoline and cars without seat belts?
    - mkirklions 9y ago
      I think both of those examples had regulation where industry had already moved forward. I dont know the history of leaded gasoline, but I worked in safety, and car companies were definitely moving toward safe vehicles.
      - danans 9y ago
        From 1985: "Auto makers, who have been fighting the introduction of air bags for nearly a decade as too costly and only marginally effective, have gone a long way toward their goal of bypassing the federal regulations. " http://articles.latimes.com/1985-02-19/news/mn-546_1_seat-belts http://articles.latimes.com/1985-02-19/news/mn-546_1_seat-be... From 1990: "But the history of catalytic converters reveals another side of Detroit. The industry refined the technology only after Congress imposed strict limits and deadlines and foreign car makers threatened to develop cleaner engines." https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1990/03/26/auto-pollution-debate-has-ring-of-the-past/d1650ba3-2896-44fa-ac1b-4e28aca78674/?utm_term=.925a4e76cf48 https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1990/03/26/a... From 1985: "The American Petroleum Institute, a trade group, said that the refining industry had been making efforts in anticipation of today's rules to ''insure against future supply disruptions. 'But the announced lead-reduction schedule will create a substantial problem for the refining industry in providing motorists with adequate quantities of high-quality gasoline at reasonable costs,'' the institute's statement said." https://www.nytimes.com/1985/03/05/us/epa-orders-90-percent-cut-in-lead-content-of-gasoline-by-1986.html?sec=health https://www.nytimes.com/1985/03/05/us/epa-orders-90-percent-...
- AnthonyMouse 9y ago
  > Saying that any hypothetical regulation introduced after this Facebook fiasco (and all the other data breaches of late) will benefit Facebook and hurt competitors is not exactly what I would call level-headed skepticism. Can you name a piece of US federal legislation regulating a major industry passed in the last, say, 30 years, where this was not the case?
  - DaiPlusPlus 9y ago
    Vehicle safety regulations.
    - twoodfin 9y ago
      There aren’t very many small or startup auto makers, so it’s hard to assert that safety regulations don’t function as a barrier to entry. Not that it isn’t a good barrier to have!
      - AnthonyMouse 9y ago
        > There aren’t very many small or startup auto makers, so it’s hard to assert that safety regulations don’t function as a barrier to entry. Well actually... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_defunct_automobile_manufacturers_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_defunct_automobile_man... Notice the number created before vs. after 1967, when the feds started passing vehicle safety regulations. Also notice how many of those created after 1967 (e.g. Geo, Saturn, Hummer) aren't actually independent, they're just retired marks of the existing incumbents. Because the safety regulations are designed for huge companies. The companies literally provide cars to the government to be crashed for testing purposes, because destroying a few cars is nothing to Ford or GM.
    - shkkmo 9y ago
      Ralph Nader would disagree. https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2014/09/17/ralph-nader-safety-nhtsa-investigation-regulation-congress-gm-stalled-column/15801047/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2014/09/17/ralph-nade...

simias 9y ago

I'm not saying that regulatory capture doesn't happen, I'm saying that it doesn't necessarily happen every time a new piece of regulation is introduced. Saying that any hypothetical regulation introduced after this Facebook fiasco (and all the other data breaches of late) will benefit Facebook and hurt competitors is not exactly what I would call level-headed skepticism. Doesn't mean that we shouldn't be very careful about what comes out of this whole discussion and maybe make our voices heard if we deem it unfair or ineffective but we're not there yet.

mkirklions 9y ago
Easy to say without seeing the proposals. Regulation can be awful or insignificant. My state requires strippers to fill out a license and pay 50$. Changed nothing. However, my state also requires you to put down 1M to start a bank. Thats definitely regulatory capture. Its too soon to know whats going to be required of data. Databases might become significantly worse to program and require teams to maintain at government standards.
- danans 9y ago
  > Regulation can be awful or insignificant. No benefits at all, really? Remember pre-regulation leaded gasoline and cars without seat belts?
  - mkirklions 9y ago
    I think both of those examples had regulation where industry had already moved forward. I dont know the history of leaded gasoline, but I worked in safety, and car companies were definitely moving toward safe vehicles.
    - danans 9y ago
      From 1985: "Auto makers, who have been fighting the introduction of air bags for nearly a decade as too costly and only marginally effective, have gone a long way toward their goal of bypassing the federal regulations. " http://articles.latimes.com/1985-02-19/news/mn-546_1_seat-belts http://articles.latimes.com/1985-02-19/news/mn-546_1_seat-be... From 1990: "But the history of catalytic converters reveals another side of Detroit. The industry refined the technology only after Congress imposed strict limits and deadlines and foreign car makers threatened to develop cleaner engines." https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1990/03/26/auto-pollution-debate-has-ring-of-the-past/d1650ba3-2896-44fa-ac1b-4e28aca78674/?utm_term=.925a4e76cf48 https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1990/03/26/a... From 1985: "The American Petroleum Institute, a trade group, said that the refining industry had been making efforts in anticipation of today's rules to ''insure against future supply disruptions. 'But the announced lead-reduction schedule will create a substantial problem for the refining industry in providing motorists with adequate quantities of high-quality gasoline at reasonable costs,'' the institute's statement said." https://www.nytimes.com/1985/03/05/us/epa-orders-90-percent-cut-in-lead-content-of-gasoline-by-1986.html?sec=health https://www.nytimes.com/1985/03/05/us/epa-orders-90-percent-...
AnthonyMouse 9y ago
> Saying that any hypothetical regulation introduced after this Facebook fiasco (and all the other data breaches of late) will benefit Facebook and hurt competitors is not exactly what I would call level-headed skepticism. Can you name a piece of US federal legislation regulating a major industry passed in the last, say, 30 years, where this was not the case?
- DaiPlusPlus 9y ago
  Vehicle safety regulations.
  - twoodfin 9y ago
    There aren’t very many small or startup auto makers, so it’s hard to assert that safety regulations don’t function as a barrier to entry. Not that it isn’t a good barrier to have!
    - AnthonyMouse 9y ago
      > There aren’t very many small or startup auto makers, so it’s hard to assert that safety regulations don’t function as a barrier to entry. Well actually... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_defunct_automobile_manufacturers_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_defunct_automobile_man... Notice the number created before vs. after 1967, when the feds started passing vehicle safety regulations. Also notice how many of those created after 1967 (e.g. Geo, Saturn, Hummer) aren't actually independent, they're just retired marks of the existing incumbents. Because the safety regulations are designed for huge companies. The companies literally provide cars to the government to be crashed for testing purposes, because destroying a few cars is nothing to Ford or GM.
  - shkkmo 9y ago
    Ralph Nader would disagree. https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2014/09/17/ralph-nader-safety-nhtsa-investigation-regulation-congress-gm-stalled-column/15801047/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2014/09/17/ralph-nade...