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Some regulatory requirements are manageable by a large, established company but not a startup. For instance, requiring human review of user content is going to

Some regulatory requirements are manageable by a large, established company but not a startup. For instance, requiring human review of user content is going to be tough in a high growth phase.

ivanhoe 9y ago
But that's exactly how it works in many other lines of businesses, e.g. in construction. Many small companies can't provide compliance with the required codes, so they're forced to work their way up the ladder slowly or create joint ventures. Sure, that way you probably can't become a billionaire in a few years, but also bridges fall down less often because of it, so in the end it's not necessarily a bad thing for the society.
- smaddox 9y ago
  What makes you think large companies are more capable of developing reliable, secure software?
  - frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
    Huh? Isn't the point of this whole comment chain that large companies are able to comply with regulations that protect user safety that small companies might not be able to? In that case it's self evident why a large company is better able to protect user safety.
    - mattnewton 9y ago
      That’s assuming the regulations work instead of just throw obstacles in the way of new companies.
      - AnthonyMouse 9y ago
        > That’s assuming the regulations work instead of just throw obstacles in the way of new companies. Not only that, laws have a tendency to set a particular model in stone. The model large companies use is to collect everything they possibly can and then use bureaucratic processes to control access. The model small companies and individuals use is to minimize the data they collect and use technical means to ensure that the company has no access to the customer's data at all. This obviously tends to be more secure. But if the bureaucratic process is required by law regardless of whether it's really protecting anything, the more secure model becomes impossible -- you have to collect all the data because it's the only way to make enough money to pay for the bureaucratic overhead.
        extra88 9y ago
        > The model small companies and individuals use is to minimize the data they collect and use technical means to ensure that the company has no access to the customer's data at all. There have been a zillion startups that have had collecting user data baked into their business model.
        AnthonyMouse 9y ago
        > There have been a zillion startups that have had collecting user data baked into their business model. And they can rot like Facebook. Nobody is trying to save them. The problem is you're destroying anyone whose model isn't that.
    - extra88 9y ago
      Organization size doesn't really correlate to software reliability or security. But that's not where the problems with Facebook and online privacy generally are. Any org of any size can follow rules like not sharing user information with third parties (though eliminating business models dependent upon that could be limiting). Smaller organizations would have a much harder time complying with legal changes that significantly erode the Safe Harbor provisions of the DMCA that make platforms not responsible for the actions of their users.
- extra88 9y ago
  Software and construction are not analogous. For one thing, no one is talking about regulation of social media that has to do with life and death matters. Are you proposing that no one should be allowed to create a video sharing platform unless they can prove in advance they can actively monitor all uploaded content, regardless of how popular they get?
  - EpicEng 9y ago
    > For one thing, no one is talking about regulation of social media that has to do with life and death matters You may not believe that if you live in Myanmar or Kenya. Large amounts of behavioral information in the hands of the wrong people can absolutely be a life or death issue.
    - extra88 9y ago
      I'm not saying there are no life and death matters, I'm saying no one is talking about regulation that would address them. I could be wrong, I'm not current regarding the relevance of Facebook and those countries.
wyck 9y ago
America needs to look at citizen privacy laws like they have in Canada and the E.U. For example if I log into the Facebook business manager for a company I can see tons of data on Americans but not nearly as many details for Canadians, it's because of these laws. The new E.U. laws are even stricter with regards to personal data and how it's used, no matter who you are. Why there is no demand for this level of protection in the States by its citizens and representatives is crazy. Anyone who expects goodwill from Facebook, Google or any company is seriously misguided. Privacy laws need to be in place, actual laws that are bound my the federal legal system, and not just state regulations.
- gregknicholson 9y ago
  > Why there is no demand for this level of protection in the States by its citizens and representatives is crazy. The U.S. is culturally much more opposed to government interference in citizens' interactions, compared to Europe. The U.S. started as a rebellion against an authoritarian government. I suspect this is because a lot of the first Europeans who migrated to North America were the self-reliant type who actually would flourish best if left alone. What we see as help or protection, they see as interference. (This doesn't explain Canada. Inexplicability is one of Canada's many charms.)
  - extra88 9y ago
    Canada is still a constitutional monarchy so that's a difference from the U.S. that has shaped its culture.

Some regulatory requirements are manageable by a large, established company but not a startup. For instance, requiring human review of user content is going to be tough in a high growth phase.

ivanhoe 9y ago

But that's exactly how it works in many other lines of businesses, e.g. in construction. Many small companies can't provide compliance with the required codes, so they're forced to work their way up the ladder slowly or create joint ventures. Sure, that way you probably can't become a billionaire in a few years, but also bridges fall down less often because of it, so in the end it's not necessarily a bad thing for the society.

smaddox 9y ago
What makes you think large companies are more capable of developing reliable, secure software?
- frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
  Huh? Isn't the point of this whole comment chain that large companies are able to comply with regulations that protect user safety that small companies might not be able to? In that case it's self evident why a large company is better able to protect user safety.
  - mattnewton 9y ago
    That’s assuming the regulations work instead of just throw obstacles in the way of new companies.
    - AnthonyMouse 9y ago
      > That’s assuming the regulations work instead of just throw obstacles in the way of new companies. Not only that, laws have a tendency to set a particular model in stone. The model large companies use is to collect everything they possibly can and then use bureaucratic processes to control access. The model small companies and individuals use is to minimize the data they collect and use technical means to ensure that the company has no access to the customer's data at all. This obviously tends to be more secure. But if the bureaucratic process is required by law regardless of whether it's really protecting anything, the more secure model becomes impossible -- you have to collect all the data because it's the only way to make enough money to pay for the bureaucratic overhead.
      - extra88 9y ago
        > The model small companies and individuals use is to minimize the data they collect and use technical means to ensure that the company has no access to the customer's data at all. There have been a zillion startups that have had collecting user data baked into their business model.
        AnthonyMouse 9y ago
        > There have been a zillion startups that have had collecting user data baked into their business model. And they can rot like Facebook. Nobody is trying to save them. The problem is you're destroying anyone whose model isn't that.
  - extra88 9y ago
    Organization size doesn't really correlate to software reliability or security. But that's not where the problems with Facebook and online privacy generally are. Any org of any size can follow rules like not sharing user information with third parties (though eliminating business models dependent upon that could be limiting). Smaller organizations would have a much harder time complying with legal changes that significantly erode the Safe Harbor provisions of the DMCA that make platforms not responsible for the actions of their users.
extra88 9y ago
Software and construction are not analogous. For one thing, no one is talking about regulation of social media that has to do with life and death matters. Are you proposing that no one should be allowed to create a video sharing platform unless they can prove in advance they can actively monitor all uploaded content, regardless of how popular they get?
- EpicEng 9y ago
  > For one thing, no one is talking about regulation of social media that has to do with life and death matters You may not believe that if you live in Myanmar or Kenya. Large amounts of behavioral information in the hands of the wrong people can absolutely be a life or death issue.
  - extra88 9y ago
    I'm not saying there are no life and death matters, I'm saying no one is talking about regulation that would address them. I could be wrong, I'm not current regarding the relevance of Facebook and those countries.

wyck 9y ago

America needs to look at citizen privacy laws like they have in Canada and the E.U. For example if I log into the Facebook business manager for a company I can see tons of data on Americans but not nearly as many details for Canadians, it's because of these laws. The new E.U. laws are even stricter with regards to personal data and how it's used, no matter who you are. Why there is no demand for this level of protection in the States by its citizens and representatives is crazy. Anyone who expects goodwill from Facebook, Google or any company is seriously misguided. Privacy laws need to be in place, actual laws that are bound my the federal legal system, and not just state regulations.

gregknicholson 9y ago
> Why there is no demand for this level of protection in the States by its citizens and representatives is crazy. The U.S. is culturally much more opposed to government interference in citizens' interactions, compared to Europe. The U.S. started as a rebellion against an authoritarian government. I suspect this is because a lot of the first Europeans who migrated to North America were the self-reliant type who actually would flourish best if left alone. What we see as help or protection, they see as interference. (This doesn't explain Canada. Inexplicability is one of Canada's many charms.)
- extra88 9y ago
  Canada is still a constitutional monarchy so that's a difference from the U.S. that has shaped its culture.