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When you signed up for Facebook, was there a screen that said, "Facebook will take all the information you provide, regardless of format or intent, and monetize

When you signed up for Facebook, was there a screen that said, "Facebook will take all the information you provide, regardless of format or intent, and monetize it as much as possible, as well as share it with government agencies"? You knew this going in. Many people know this and don't have Facebook account. A lot of people did not know this and are just finding out -- that's where the "outrage" comes out. (A fourth group are those who didn't know and don't care.) What might be worse is that had Facebook actually put that screen up, most people would not have bothered to read it. Very few people ever read "Terms & Conditions" and that's a problem. (Just like not reading "Permissions" when installing an app.)

frankharv 9y ago
What part of "Private Message" do you not understand. These data rapers were stealing peoples "Private Messages" The term "Private Message" is not complicated. They stole peoples data straight up. Data thieves. What they do is hide behind these screens you defend. Written by scumbag lawyers to not be understood or clear.
- 5555624 9y ago
  I have an understanding of "Private Message." Probably the same as you. Does Facebook have the same understanding? No. If Facebook said, "Facebook will take all the information you provide, regardless of format or intent, and monetize it as much as possible, as well as share it with government agencies," I would read that as there is no such thing as a "private message" on Facebook, since it says, "all the information your provide."
- sametmax 9y ago
  This is the comment of something who hasn't read the terms and conditions.
sametmax 9y ago
Exactly. Facebook is a bad actor. It's good if we can do something about it. But Facebook is not the root of the problem. There will always be bad actors. The root of the problem is that people don't care. I told me friends and relative, again and again, about those issues. I answered any question. I did research, on MY time, to answer their concerns, for them who would not dare spending a second on it. I listened patiently to the witty comments on the fact I didn't have a FB account, for years. They just didn't care enough to make any effort, any change. And they still don't, no matter what the scandal feels right now. They will forget tomorrow. And even if they didn't, they will blame the bad actor, not their choice. And it will start all over again with another bad actor. That's what happen with crazy ex, lying politicians and bad movies. Now I (somewhat) get that choosing what you buy has a high impact on you life, and so I gave up on expecting people to vote with their wallet. It's sad, because that would have a huge effect, but it's the reality. But "not using Facebook" is different than choosing to move out of a city or not having a car or other life altering decisions. It's just a communication tool. We have so many. So I have currently zero empathy for the "victims" of this leak. Quite the contrary, I feel a little angry. Because I have to leave in a world that could be much more beautiful if only people, sometimes, just sometimes, though about the consequences of their life instead of just going with the motion. And this affects much more than privacy. And it's unfair.
- mistermann 9y ago
  I feel like I understand this situation fairly well and I still use Facebook, is that a mistake or very bad idea?
  - sametmax 9y ago
    I don't know you, I can't tell. I would advice to stop, but facebook is just the tip of the iceberg. It's about doing (as much as it's humanly possible, we are small weak creatures after all) what we can to create a society in which we want to live in. And for that, before voting, before anything political or big, there is the day to day life. What you you consume. What you communicate. How you behave. I don't pretend it's easy. I fail at it most of the time, most of the days. I've failed since I was born. But it's what matters. Not facebook in particular.
- aninhumer 9y ago
  >So I have currently zero empathy for the "victims" of this leak. Quite the contrary, I feel a little angry. Because I have to leave in a world that could be much more beautiful if only people, sometimes, just sometimes, though about the consequences of their life instead of just going with the motion. And this affects much more than privacy. And it's unfair. And the very fact that you insist on blaming the individuals for a collective problem is why problems like this are so hard to solve. If so many people don't care about this issue, despite its importance, maybe you should stop blaming them and expecting them to magically start caring, and start thinking about how our society leads them to believe it's not an issue?
  - wool_gather 9y ago
    I don't know that their belief is a cultural problem, or at least one that's changeable. The book "The Design of Everyday Things" has this idea that users of things fall into one of two broad groups: a) users that want fine control and expertise, and are willing to sacrifice simplicity to get it b) users that want simplicity, and are willing to sacrifice control to get it I think that most issues of privacy and security boil down to the simple fact that most people are in group b (really, I think that's true of any issue you care to choose). They don't care, and they won't. The cultural change that could make a difference is when the more secure, more privacy-positive options are also the easier and simpler choices.
aninhumer 9y ago
>Very few people ever read "Terms & Conditions" and that's a problem. Many people seem to be blaming this on the individuals for not reading it, but I would argue that the problem here is a legal system that allows this kind of dark pattern to be considered consent.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
manjushri 9y ago
>Very few people ever read "Terms & Conditions" and that's a problem. People don't read them because they can't read them. >read: look at and comprehend the meaning of (written or printed matter) by mentally interpreting the characters or symbols of which it is composed. Terms & Conditions are deliberately obfuscated by lawyers and encrypted in legalese. Decrypting these documents into plain english for the average users would go a long ways to breaking the Pavlovian conditioning of checking a Terms and Conditions checkbox for "free" apps.

frankharv 9y ago

What part of "Private Message" do you not understand. These data rapers were stealing peoples "Private Messages" The term "Private Message" is not complicated. They stole peoples data straight up. Data thieves. What they do is hide behind these screens you defend. Written by scumbag lawyers to not be understood or clear.

5555624 9y ago
I have an understanding of "Private Message." Probably the same as you. Does Facebook have the same understanding? No. If Facebook said, "Facebook will take all the information you provide, regardless of format or intent, and monetize it as much as possible, as well as share it with government agencies," I would read that as there is no such thing as a "private message" on Facebook, since it says, "all the information your provide."
sametmax 9y ago
This is the comment of something who hasn't read the terms and conditions.

sametmax 9y ago

Exactly. Facebook is a bad actor. It's good if we can do something about it. But Facebook is not the root of the problem. There will always be bad actors. The root of the problem is that people don't care. I told me friends and relative, again and again, about those issues. I answered any question. I did research, on MY time, to answer their concerns, for them who would not dare spending a second on it. I listened patiently to the witty comments on the fact I didn't have a FB account, for years. They just didn't care enough to make any effort, any change. And they still don't, no matter what the scandal feels right now. They will forget tomorrow. And even if they didn't, they will blame the bad actor, not their choice. And it will start all over again with another bad actor. That's what happen with crazy ex, lying politicians and bad movies. Now I (somewhat) get that choosing what you buy has a high impact on you life, and so I gave up on expecting people to vote with their wallet. It's sad, because that would have a huge effect, but it's the reality. But "not using Facebook" is different than choosing to move out of a city or not having a car or other life altering decisions. It's just a communication tool. We have so many. So I have currently zero empathy for the "victims" of this leak. Quite the contrary, I feel a little angry. Because I have to leave in a world that could be much more beautiful if only people, sometimes, just sometimes, though about the consequences of their life instead of just going with the motion. And this affects much more than privacy. And it's unfair.

mistermann 9y ago
I feel like I understand this situation fairly well and I still use Facebook, is that a mistake or very bad idea?
- sametmax 9y ago
  I don't know you, I can't tell. I would advice to stop, but facebook is just the tip of the iceberg. It's about doing (as much as it's humanly possible, we are small weak creatures after all) what we can to create a society in which we want to live in. And for that, before voting, before anything political or big, there is the day to day life. What you you consume. What you communicate. How you behave. I don't pretend it's easy. I fail at it most of the time, most of the days. I've failed since I was born. But it's what matters. Not facebook in particular.
aninhumer 9y ago
>So I have currently zero empathy for the "victims" of this leak. Quite the contrary, I feel a little angry. Because I have to leave in a world that could be much more beautiful if only people, sometimes, just sometimes, though about the consequences of their life instead of just going with the motion. And this affects much more than privacy. And it's unfair. And the very fact that you insist on blaming the individuals for a collective problem is why problems like this are so hard to solve. If so many people don't care about this issue, despite its importance, maybe you should stop blaming them and expecting them to magically start caring, and start thinking about how our society leads them to believe it's not an issue?
- wool_gather 9y ago
  I don't know that their belief is a cultural problem, or at least one that's changeable. The book "The Design of Everyday Things" has this idea that users of things fall into one of two broad groups: a) users that want fine control and expertise, and are willing to sacrifice simplicity to get it b) users that want simplicity, and are willing to sacrifice control to get it I think that most issues of privacy and security boil down to the simple fact that most people are in group b (really, I think that's true of any issue you care to choose). They don't care, and they won't. The cultural change that could make a difference is when the more secure, more privacy-positive options are also the easier and simpler choices.

aninhumer 9y ago

>Very few people ever read "Terms & Conditions" and that's a problem. Many people seem to be blaming this on the individuals for not reading it, but I would argue that the problem here is a legal system that allows this kind of dark pattern to be considered consent.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

manjushri 9y ago

>Very few people ever read "Terms & Conditions" and that's a problem. People don't read them because they can't read them. >read: look at and comprehend the meaning of (written or printed matter) by mentally interpreting the characters or symbols of which it is composed. Terms & Conditions are deliberately obfuscated by lawyers and encrypted in legalese. Decrypting these documents into plain english for the average users would go a long ways to breaking the Pavlovian conditioning of checking a Terms and Conditions checkbox for "free" apps.