I think there is some loyalty. As an example, my younger son is looking for his first job, I'm gonna see if the local grocery store will hire him, but I talked

I think there is some loyalty. As an example, my younger son is looking for his first job, I'm gonna see if the local grocery store will hire him, but I talked to him and said "Look Dylan, if you get a job there then you have to stick with it. They are going to spend time to train you, that's an investment, you need to stick with it even if you get bored." If US engineers bounced from job to job as much as the out-sourcing guys seem to it would be a red flag. I don't know what the norm is today, but back when I was hiring, people that didn't stick it out for at least a year at each company (and had no explanation, things happen, I'd allow for that), were considered less desirable than someone who stuck it out for longer. But in general, I agree with your point that you gotta pay if you want quality people. Good people are expensive. The lure of out-sourcing is a pipedream so far as I can tell.