4 ms·

Yeah this article is meant as a simple how-to for someone that has already decided they want to form an LLC in California and understand the pros and cons. I c

Yeah this article is meant as a simple how-to for someone that has already decided they want to form an LLC in California and understand the pros and cons. I cover some of the issues you cite in another post: https://blog.bookandledger.com/topics/business-formation/intro-to-forming-a-business https://blog.bookandledger.com/topics/business-formation/int...

jiveturkey 9y ago
Yeah the original article is almost worthless. The 2nd article you just linked is much better, and usefully informative. However, it still needs: - info about the need for an operating agreement - more detail about piercing the corporate veil - discussion of FTB and IRS reclassifying as hobby business You are advertising to a very technical audience and should address these things at a deep level.
- theptip 9y ago
  I strongly disagree with "almost worthless"; assuming you've made the decision to form a CA LLC, this post is very useful. You're making some quite strident demands of some random person on the internet here ;) Having said that, I too would be interested in the extra topics that you listed, particularly the operating agreement piece. I looked into this recently and NoLo offers a $100-300 service [1] which comes with options, vs. free Operating Agreements like this random one on UpCounsel[2]. I have no idea what the parameters are on this, and in the past I've just leant on a lawyer friend to do this for me; I'd like to understand the details. [1]: https://store.nolo.com/products/online-california-llc-ptlca-2.html https://store.nolo.com/products/online-california-llc-ptlca-... [2]: https://www.upcounsel.com/single-member-llc-operating-agreement https://www.upcounsel.com/single-member-llc-operating-agreem...
  - jiveturkey 9y ago
    I paid $1000 to a lawyer for an operating agreement. It was fine. For my 2nd LLC I just copied a free template (different than my expensive lawyer'd one) since I now had a really good understanding of what needs to be there. At first yes it's scary to think you might be getting it wrong, but you learn that it's not rocket science. It's basically the agreement between the members of the corporate structure. I haven't read the NOLO one but I bet it's good value for money. You will generally have to present the operating agreement to the bank to open a business account, to get business financing, maybe for insurance, stuff like that. My experience (IANAL) is that for friendly partners, the nolo template is going to be fine. If you're selling shares to folks that you don't have a history with, you may want to have the assurance of expert, personal legal advice from someone you can also go back to with future concerns. And for that kind of bigger LLC anyway, the $1000 or so is a reasonable expense.
    - mikeryan 9y ago
      I’m not sure a template is the way to go with multi member. If you are going multi member you should really both get a lawyer to explain the details and review the docs. I’ve had to unwind a multi member LLC into a single member one and gaps in our operating agreement were suddenly all too relevant.
- akanet 9y ago
  I don't think it's very nice to call the work of someone trying to contribute information to the group "worthless".
  - jiveturkey 9y ago
    I call it that because it's trivial information, easily obtained anywhere. It doesn't need to be re-re-re-told. First google result for the obvious 'how to file llc california': https://howtostartanllc.com/california-llc https://howtostartanllc.com/california-llc Just as readable as the original article and goes into some more useful admin details, such as the need to get a business license, seller's permit, etc.
    - samstave 9y ago
      Bullshit. It is trivial to you, and you're just being a jerk. Fucking educate people. Don't Condescend.
      - jiveturkey 9y ago
        I did educate. I gave you the very first google link, which has better info than the OP. You do realize this post isn't "informing" people, it's an advertisement, right?
    - gk1 9y ago
      Good for you. You should read this: https://xkcd.com/1053/ https://xkcd.com/1053/
- mmckelvy 9y ago
  Lol! Glad you at least liked the second article a little better. I have some plans for future posts that will delve a little further into the weeds on various structuring / finance / tax topics.
IncRnd 9y ago
> Yeah this article is meant as a simple how-to for someone that has already decided they want to form an LLC and understand the pros and cons. I think you mean "has already decided they want to form an LLC in California "
- mmckelvy 9y ago
  Yep! Fixed.
emodendroket 9y ago
If you're at that point I have to wonder whether you'd be looking at this article.
- gk1 9y ago
  Why? It's not as though someone goes from no-understanding-whatsoever to complete-mastery. I remember when I decided to form an LLC the next step was do decide which state to do it in--specifically, whether to do it in Delaware or my home state. Cost and convenience (what this article is about) was a consideration. Then after I decided to do it in my home state, I needed to decide whether to a) do it myself, b) use an online service, or c) use a local attorney. That meant more reading on that particular question. And so on...
- _jal 9y ago
  People do this thing called 'research'. It is a method of finding information that, among other things, allows them to mentally model future possibilities. Accurate overview information is really useful for this - one doesn't need to know that the answer to question 14a on form 6735n has tax implications in order to get an idea of the process, compare to other states, etc.
  - emodendroket 9y ago
    Thanks for the gratuitous condescension, but my point here is that I see the potential audience is quite possibly either too advanced to find the article useful or else not advanced enough to recognize its limitations.
    - _jal 9y ago
      I'm sorry you didn't find my humor funny, I wasn't trying to be mean. But fine then; we disagree. I found the article worth reading - it is exactly the sort of thing I'd want if I found myself with a mostly-idle interest in what the process looks like. Last time I did incorporate, I spent substantially more time and money on the question (and would never do so in CA, but that's a different discussion). But that's because I was actually doing it, not just curious.

jiveturkey 9y ago

Yeah the original article is almost worthless. The 2nd article you just linked is much better, and usefully informative. However, it still needs: - info about the need for an operating agreement - more detail about piercing the corporate veil - discussion of FTB and IRS reclassifying as hobby business You are advertising to a very technical audience and should address these things at a deep level.

theptip 9y ago
I strongly disagree with "almost worthless"; assuming you've made the decision to form a CA LLC, this post is very useful. You're making some quite strident demands of some random person on the internet here ;) Having said that, I too would be interested in the extra topics that you listed, particularly the operating agreement piece. I looked into this recently and NoLo offers a $100-300 service [1] which comes with options, vs. free Operating Agreements like this random one on UpCounsel[2]. I have no idea what the parameters are on this, and in the past I've just leant on a lawyer friend to do this for me; I'd like to understand the details. [1]: https://store.nolo.com/products/online-california-llc-ptlca-2.html https://store.nolo.com/products/online-california-llc-ptlca-... [2]: https://www.upcounsel.com/single-member-llc-operating-agreement https://www.upcounsel.com/single-member-llc-operating-agreem...
- jiveturkey 9y ago
  I paid $1000 to a lawyer for an operating agreement. It was fine. For my 2nd LLC I just copied a free template (different than my expensive lawyer'd one) since I now had a really good understanding of what needs to be there. At first yes it's scary to think you might be getting it wrong, but you learn that it's not rocket science. It's basically the agreement between the members of the corporate structure. I haven't read the NOLO one but I bet it's good value for money. You will generally have to present the operating agreement to the bank to open a business account, to get business financing, maybe for insurance, stuff like that. My experience (IANAL) is that for friendly partners, the nolo template is going to be fine. If you're selling shares to folks that you don't have a history with, you may want to have the assurance of expert, personal legal advice from someone you can also go back to with future concerns. And for that kind of bigger LLC anyway, the $1000 or so is a reasonable expense.
  - mikeryan 9y ago
    I’m not sure a template is the way to go with multi member. If you are going multi member you should really both get a lawyer to explain the details and review the docs. I’ve had to unwind a multi member LLC into a single member one and gaps in our operating agreement were suddenly all too relevant.
akanet 9y ago
I don't think it's very nice to call the work of someone trying to contribute information to the group "worthless".
- jiveturkey 9y ago
  I call it that because it's trivial information, easily obtained anywhere. It doesn't need to be re-re-re-told. First google result for the obvious 'how to file llc california': https://howtostartanllc.com/california-llc https://howtostartanllc.com/california-llc Just as readable as the original article and goes into some more useful admin details, such as the need to get a business license, seller's permit, etc.
  - samstave 9y ago
    Bullshit. It is trivial to you, and you're just being a jerk. Fucking educate people. Don't Condescend.
    - jiveturkey 9y ago
      I did educate. I gave you the very first google link, which has better info than the OP. You do realize this post isn't "informing" people, it's an advertisement, right?
  - gk1 9y ago
    Good for you. You should read this: https://xkcd.com/1053/ https://xkcd.com/1053/
mmckelvy 9y ago
Lol! Glad you at least liked the second article a little better. I have some plans for future posts that will delve a little further into the weeds on various structuring / finance / tax topics.

IncRnd 9y ago

> Yeah this article is meant as a simple how-to for someone that has already decided they want to form an LLC and understand the pros and cons. I think you mean "has already decided they want to form an LLC in California "

mmckelvy 9y ago
Yep! Fixed.

emodendroket 9y ago

If you're at that point I have to wonder whether you'd be looking at this article.

gk1 9y ago
Why? It's not as though someone goes from no-understanding-whatsoever to complete-mastery. I remember when I decided to form an LLC the next step was do decide which state to do it in--specifically, whether to do it in Delaware or my home state. Cost and convenience (what this article is about) was a consideration. Then after I decided to do it in my home state, I needed to decide whether to a) do it myself, b) use an online service, or c) use a local attorney. That meant more reading on that particular question. And so on...
_jal 9y ago
People do this thing called 'research'. It is a method of finding information that, among other things, allows them to mentally model future possibilities. Accurate overview information is really useful for this - one doesn't need to know that the answer to question 14a on form 6735n has tax implications in order to get an idea of the process, compare to other states, etc.
- emodendroket 9y ago
  Thanks for the gratuitous condescension, but my point here is that I see the potential audience is quite possibly either too advanced to find the article useful or else not advanced enough to recognize its limitations.
  - _jal 9y ago
    I'm sorry you didn't find my humor funny, I wasn't trying to be mean. But fine then; we disagree. I found the article worth reading - it is exactly the sort of thing I'd want if I found myself with a mostly-idle interest in what the process looks like. Last time I did incorporate, I spent substantially more time and money on the question (and would never do so in CA, but that's a different discussion). But that's because I was actually doing it, not just curious.