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> ...taxed into Bankruptcy. Given that you're taxed on profits (reductive, I know) isn't this literally impossible? God forbid Californians value healthcare a

> ...taxed into Bankruptcy. Given that you're taxed on profits (reductive, I know) isn't this literally impossible? God forbid Californians value healthcare and that a city 45 minutes from the HQ of the richest company in the world, in the midst of a homelessness crisis, attempt to improve the lives of its at-risk citizens http://sfist.com/2017/06/26/2017_san_francisco_homeless_census.php http://sfist.com/2017/06/26/2017_san_francisco_homeless_cens...

abritinthebay 9y ago
It is impossible. He’s just repeating talking points he heard but does not understand.
- manigandham 9y ago
  What is impossible? The minimum franchise tax? Are you sure that you understand? https://www.ftb.ca.gov/businesses/faq/712.shtml https://www.ftb.ca.gov/businesses/faq/712.shtml >> Minimum tax is the amount you must pay the first quarter of each accounting period whether the corporation is active, operates at a loss or does not do business. The current minimum tax is $800.
  - abritinthebay 9y ago
    "taxed into Bankruptcy" If you're not making $800 then you don't have a business - you have a hobby.
    - manigandham 9y ago
      There's no number on the amount of money you have to earn to be a business. Corporate structures can be useful even if they don't directly earn money. Either way, yes it's just a cost of doing business in California, and so profits need to be greater than the cost for the business to be sustainable. Perhaps it's not a great description to say "taxed into bankruptcy" but it's no different than "did not meet costs and ended in bankruptcy", with the costs specifically being taxes.
      - abritinthebay 9y ago
        Sure, there is no minimum (tho it could be argued that $800 is the minimum tbh) but even if you only charge minumum wage ($11) that’s less than two weeks work. More likely the hourly equivalent will be a lot higher. A dog walker would make that in 4 days at worst. A week or two if they are casual ones. So to not make that it’s not the taxes that are killing your business.
JumpCrisscross 9y ago
Some Californian counties and cities [1] tax top line and fixed franchise/license taxes, irrespective of profitability. [1] https://www.sidley.com/en/insights/newsupdates/2013/09/phasein-of-new-san-francisco-gross-receipts-tax-and-business-registration-fee-to-begin-in-2014 https://www.sidley.com/en/insights/newsupdates/2013/09/phase...
- gamblor956 9y ago
  Correction: Just San Francisco. It even says so in the linked page.
eschutte2 9y ago
The $800 "minimum tax" on LLCs and C-corps is assessed whether you have any revenue or not.
- dlisboa 9y ago
  If you can't come up with US$ 800 a year to pay a business tax you're pretty much bankrupt already and it wasn't the tax that killed you.
  - m0llusk 9y ago
    That isn't true at all. Most small businesses start out extremely lean and at risk.
    - SlowBro 9y ago
      $800 to obtain the privilege of operating in one of the world’s largest economies seems like a bargain to me. Were I one of those small businesses I would find some way to get that funding. A loan, a credit card, something. There are plenty of reasons people want to be in CA to do business, and that’s not that big of an expense for the value of operating there, in my opinion. And by the way I’m not in agreement with most taxes; I am almost a Libertarian. I’m also not a Californian. I’m just saying, I think it’s not that big a deal in the grand scheme.
      - geggam 9y ago
        Calling "starting a business" a privilege completely moves you very far away from the libertarian space.
        SlowBro 9y ago
        It’s the world we live in. Ask me personally what I think and I’ll tell you it’s a God-given right to start a business with little government mettling. In the real world, especially one largely run by statists, it’s considered a privilege. I'm using the language of statists because most people today are statists. It doesn't necessarily follow that I also personally agree with the idea, though I can see why you'd draw that conclusion.
manigandham 9y ago
Interesting how given the tax does exist, the city with the HQ of the richest company in the world is in a homelessness crisis in the first place. Perhaps these taxes are not actually useful?
- vpribish 9y ago
  don't troll
  - manigandham 9y ago
    It's commentary on the situation existing and a question on whether the taxes are effective. Why the sensitivity and how is your post constructive?
- zaksoup 9y ago
  Apple is registered in Delaware. Again, reductive, but as other commenters said... don’t troll.
  - manigandham 9y ago
    Why did you mention Apple in your comment then? Also operating in California means paying taxes in California and the minimum franchise tax is assessed regardless of corporate status or income: https://www.ftb.ca.gov/businesses/faq/712.shtml https://www.ftb.ca.gov/businesses/faq/712.shtml What is reductive about wondering why a situation that you outlined exists for decades when there are specific extra taxes to help battle it?
- alchemism 9y ago
  Or mayhaps the tax rate is too low and should be much higher for them?
  - manigandham 9y ago
    For who? Also I'm asking about effectiveness, not necessarily the amount. If they are not useful unless they are at a certain amount, then what would that be and why aren't they at that level already? And wouldn't that just mean that anything below that level actually is useless if it doesn't meet the minimum needed to do anything?

abritinthebay 9y ago

It is impossible. He’s just repeating talking points he heard but does not understand.

manigandham 9y ago
What is impossible? The minimum franchise tax? Are you sure that you understand? https://www.ftb.ca.gov/businesses/faq/712.shtml https://www.ftb.ca.gov/businesses/faq/712.shtml >> Minimum tax is the amount you must pay the first quarter of each accounting period whether the corporation is active, operates at a loss or does not do business. The current minimum tax is $800.
- abritinthebay 9y ago
  "taxed into Bankruptcy" If you're not making $800 then you don't have a business - you have a hobby.
  - manigandham 9y ago
    There's no number on the amount of money you have to earn to be a business. Corporate structures can be useful even if they don't directly earn money. Either way, yes it's just a cost of doing business in California, and so profits need to be greater than the cost for the business to be sustainable. Perhaps it's not a great description to say "taxed into bankruptcy" but it's no different than "did not meet costs and ended in bankruptcy", with the costs specifically being taxes.
    - abritinthebay 9y ago
      Sure, there is no minimum (tho it could be argued that $800 is the minimum tbh) but even if you only charge minumum wage ($11) that’s less than two weeks work. More likely the hourly equivalent will be a lot higher. A dog walker would make that in 4 days at worst. A week or two if they are casual ones. So to not make that it’s not the taxes that are killing your business.

JumpCrisscross 9y ago

Some Californian counties and cities [1] tax top line and fixed franchise/license taxes, irrespective of profitability. [1] https://www.sidley.com/en/insights/newsupdates/2013/09/phasein-of-new-san-francisco-gross-receipts-tax-and-business-registration-fee-to-begin-in-2014 https://www.sidley.com/en/insights/newsupdates/2013/09/phase...

gamblor956 9y ago
Correction: Just San Francisco. It even says so in the linked page.

eschutte2 9y ago

The $800 "minimum tax" on LLCs and C-corps is assessed whether you have any revenue or not.

dlisboa 9y ago
If you can't come up with US$ 800 a year to pay a business tax you're pretty much bankrupt already and it wasn't the tax that killed you.
- m0llusk 9y ago
  That isn't true at all. Most small businesses start out extremely lean and at risk.
  - SlowBro 9y ago
    $800 to obtain the privilege of operating in one of the world’s largest economies seems like a bargain to me. Were I one of those small businesses I would find some way to get that funding. A loan, a credit card, something. There are plenty of reasons people want to be in CA to do business, and that’s not that big of an expense for the value of operating there, in my opinion. And by the way I’m not in agreement with most taxes; I am almost a Libertarian. I’m also not a Californian. I’m just saying, I think it’s not that big a deal in the grand scheme.
    - geggam 9y ago
      Calling "starting a business" a privilege completely moves you very far away from the libertarian space.
      - SlowBro 9y ago
        It’s the world we live in. Ask me personally what I think and I’ll tell you it’s a God-given right to start a business with little government mettling. In the real world, especially one largely run by statists, it’s considered a privilege. I'm using the language of statists because most people today are statists. It doesn't necessarily follow that I also personally agree with the idea, though I can see why you'd draw that conclusion.

manigandham 9y ago

Interesting how given the tax does exist, the city with the HQ of the richest company in the world is in a homelessness crisis in the first place. Perhaps these taxes are not actually useful?

vpribish 9y ago
don't troll
- manigandham 9y ago
  It's commentary on the situation existing and a question on whether the taxes are effective. Why the sensitivity and how is your post constructive?
zaksoup 9y ago
Apple is registered in Delaware. Again, reductive, but as other commenters said... don’t troll.
- manigandham 9y ago
  Why did you mention Apple in your comment then? Also operating in California means paying taxes in California and the minimum franchise tax is assessed regardless of corporate status or income: https://www.ftb.ca.gov/businesses/faq/712.shtml https://www.ftb.ca.gov/businesses/faq/712.shtml What is reductive about wondering why a situation that you outlined exists for decades when there are specific extra taxes to help battle it?
alchemism 9y ago
Or mayhaps the tax rate is too low and should be much higher for them?
- manigandham 9y ago
  For who? Also I'm asking about effectiveness, not necessarily the amount. If they are not useful unless they are at a certain amount, then what would that be and why aren't they at that level already? And wouldn't that just mean that anything below that level actually is useless if it doesn't meet the minimum needed to do anything?