3 ms·

What prevents said structures from being built?

by SlowBro 8y ago

moate 8y ago
Zoning and a culture that prefers detached homes.
- SlowBro 8y ago
  So how would you go about fixing either?
  - epistasis 8y ago
    Fix the zoning and also prevent tiny minorities from having veto power on new housing. Last year, SB 35 improves this process for developments when a municipality is not yet meeting their planned amount of housing build. This year, SB 827 is up for consideration which would force municipalities to allow taller buildings close to rail and ferry terminals. These are radical changes for a state that, 30 years ago, said "we're full" and had a massive political movement to stop housing development. However, commercial office space development did not stop at the same time.
  - moate 8y ago
    Magic? Serious answer: trying to get the US to move away from single owner cars, detached homes, meat or the 2nd amendments is a near impossibility in the current social paradigm. Continued removal of non-urban economics (consolidation of farms, slow death of retail, etc) will probably force that to change in the next 30 years, but if you're trying to get today's people to buy into that, seems difficult.
    - SlowBro 8y ago
      So then you would conglomerate farms, reduce retail (and replace with what? Edit: Oh, you must mean the shift to online retail.) and I suppose also work on changing what is taught in classrooms, so that the next generation willingly sells their cars and moves into tall buildings? These are not hostile questions by the way, I'm genuinely curious.
    - epistasis 8y ago
      There are plenty of people that want to live in dense housing with walkable (retail, groceries, etc) neighborhoods, but there's nowhere near enough supply to meet that demand. This is because people living in sparse communities want to prevent others from living in dense communities. So if, for example, somebody proposes building an apartment building, the planning commisssion meeting will be filled with people who don't even live near the proposed building coming up with whatever laundry list of reasons they can to prevent it from being built.
      - SlowBro 8y ago
        Today I learned that California has more of a direct democracy. Is what you described maybe a side-effect of that? Where a tiny minority can out-voice a majority?
        epistasis 8y ago
        Yes, in many ways it's a direct democracy where only a tiny percentage of people participate. Who has time at 11:00 AM on a Tuesday to give feedback about a random building proposal? Not those who have the most to gain from a larger housing supply, those who need to work or have families to raise. Those who do show up want massive financial gains on their property because they artificially restrict the housing supply. Or they want less traffic on streets. Basically, when they moved in, things were perfect, and now that they got to move in, they don't see why anybody else should ever get to. It's a tragedy of the commons type of thing: self-interest by a few ends up harming the majority in large ways. For the type of person that stops housing, the only way to get them to listen is to speak in terms that benefit them personally. So, for example, saying that their children will never be able to afford to live nearby is not an argument for changing the system. However, shift that slightly and saying that they'll miss the first steps of their grandchildren because their children live too far away will convince them, becaue now it's about them again. Talking to these types of people, like reading the comments on newspaper websites, leads to a very dim view of humanity. However, just like newspaper comments, these meeting-attending NIMBYs are not representative of the population, they are just the ones that want to control things towards their own benefit.
- maerF0x0 8y ago
  I wouldnt prefer a detached home if there was ample space for things like sports equipment, tools and a place to work on mechanical things. Apartment living is far more than just location, its also an entire shift in choice/opportunity (from many to few).

What prevents said structures from being built?

moate 8y ago

Zoning and a culture that prefers detached homes.

SlowBro 8y ago
So how would you go about fixing either?
- epistasis 8y ago
  Fix the zoning and also prevent tiny minorities from having veto power on new housing. Last year, SB 35 improves this process for developments when a municipality is not yet meeting their planned amount of housing build. This year, SB 827 is up for consideration which would force municipalities to allow taller buildings close to rail and ferry terminals. These are radical changes for a state that, 30 years ago, said "we're full" and had a massive political movement to stop housing development. However, commercial office space development did not stop at the same time.
- moate 8y ago
  Magic? Serious answer: trying to get the US to move away from single owner cars, detached homes, meat or the 2nd amendments is a near impossibility in the current social paradigm. Continued removal of non-urban economics (consolidation of farms, slow death of retail, etc) will probably force that to change in the next 30 years, but if you're trying to get today's people to buy into that, seems difficult.
  - SlowBro 8y ago
    So then you would conglomerate farms, reduce retail (and replace with what? Edit: Oh, you must mean the shift to online retail.) and I suppose also work on changing what is taught in classrooms, so that the next generation willingly sells their cars and moves into tall buildings? These are not hostile questions by the way, I'm genuinely curious.
  - epistasis 8y ago
    There are plenty of people that want to live in dense housing with walkable (retail, groceries, etc) neighborhoods, but there's nowhere near enough supply to meet that demand. This is because people living in sparse communities want to prevent others from living in dense communities. So if, for example, somebody proposes building an apartment building, the planning commisssion meeting will be filled with people who don't even live near the proposed building coming up with whatever laundry list of reasons they can to prevent it from being built.
    - SlowBro 8y ago
      Today I learned that California has more of a direct democracy. Is what you described maybe a side-effect of that? Where a tiny minority can out-voice a majority?
      - epistasis 8y ago
        Yes, in many ways it's a direct democracy where only a tiny percentage of people participate. Who has time at 11:00 AM on a Tuesday to give feedback about a random building proposal? Not those who have the most to gain from a larger housing supply, those who need to work or have families to raise. Those who do show up want massive financial gains on their property because they artificially restrict the housing supply. Or they want less traffic on streets. Basically, when they moved in, things were perfect, and now that they got to move in, they don't see why anybody else should ever get to. It's a tragedy of the commons type of thing: self-interest by a few ends up harming the majority in large ways. For the type of person that stops housing, the only way to get them to listen is to speak in terms that benefit them personally. So, for example, saying that their children will never be able to afford to live nearby is not an argument for changing the system. However, shift that slightly and saying that they'll miss the first steps of their grandchildren because their children live too far away will convince them, becaue now it's about them again. Talking to these types of people, like reading the comments on newspaper websites, leads to a very dim view of humanity. However, just like newspaper comments, these meeting-attending NIMBYs are not representative of the population, they are just the ones that want to control things towards their own benefit.
maerF0x0 8y ago
I wouldnt prefer a detached home if there was ample space for things like sports equipment, tools and a place to work on mechanical things. Apartment living is far more than just location, its also an entire shift in choice/opportunity (from many to few).