5 ms·
So what's the solution?
by SlowBro 8y ago
So what's the solution?
- user5994461 8y agoWorld War III but it comes with other side effects.
- 0x4f3759df 8y agoTall buildings and subways.
- SlowBro 8y agoWhat prevents said structures from being built?
- moate 8y agoZoning and a culture that prefers detached homes.
- SlowBro 8y agoSo how would you go about fixing either?
- epistasis 8y agoFix the zoning and also prevent tiny minorities from having veto power on new housing. Last year, SB 35 improves this process for developments when a municipality is not yet meeting their planned amount of housing build. This year, SB 827 is up for consideration which would force municipalities to allow taller buildings close to rail and ferry terminals. These are radical changes for a state that, 30 years ago, said "we're full" and had a massive political movement to stop housing development. However, commercial office space development did not stop at the same time.
- moate 8y agoMagic? Serious answer: trying to get the US to move away from single owner cars, detached homes, meat or the 2nd amendments is a near impossibility in the current social paradigm. Continued removal of non-urban economics (consolidation of farms, slow death of retail, etc) will probably force that to change in the next 30 years, but if you're trying to get today's people to buy into that, seems difficult.
- SlowBro 8y agoSo then you would conglomerate farms, reduce retail (and replace with what? Edit: Oh, you must mean the shift to online retail.) and I suppose also work on changing what is taught in classrooms, so that the next generation willingly sells their cars and moves into tall buildings? These are not hostile questions by the way, I'm genuinely curious.
- epistasis 8y agoThere are plenty of people that want to live in dense housing with walkable (retail, groceries, etc) neighborhoods, but there's nowhere near enough supply to meet that demand. This is because people living in sparse communities want to prevent others from living in dense communities. So if, for example, somebody proposes building an apartment building, the planning commisssion meeting will be filled with people who don't even live near the proposed building coming up with whatever laundry list of reasons they can to prevent it from being built.
- SlowBro 8y agoToday I learned that California has more of a direct democracy. Is what you described maybe a side-effect of that? Where a tiny minority can out-voice a majority?
- epistasis 8y agoYes, in many ways it's a direct democracy where only a tiny percentage of people participate. Who has time at 11:00 AM on a Tuesday to give feedback about a random building proposal? Not those who have the most to gain from a larger housing supply, those who need to work or have families to raise. Those who do show up want massive financial gains on their property because they artificially restrict the housing supply. Or they want less traffic on streets. Basically, when they moved in, things were perfect, and now that they got to move in, they don't see why anybody else should ever get to. It's a tragedy of the commons type of thing: self-interest by a few ends up harming the majority in large ways. For the type of person that stops housing, the only way to get them to listen is to speak in terms that benefit them personally. So, for example, saying that their children will never be able to afford to live nearby is not an argument for changing the system. However, shift that slightly and saying that they'll miss the first steps of their grandchildren because their children live too far away will convince them, becaue now it's about them again. Talking to these types of people, like reading the comments on newspaper websites, leads to a very dim view of humanity. However, just like newspaper comments, these meeting-attending NIMBYs are not representative of the population, they are just the ones that want to control things towards their own benefit.
- maerF0x0 8y agoI wouldnt prefer a detached home if there was ample space for things like sports equipment, tools and a place to work on mechanical things. Apartment living is far more than just location, its also an entire shift in choice/opportunity (from many to few).
- karpodiem 8y agoCalifornia seceding, hopefully. I don't live in California but a good portion of the country would be Ok with California leaving. And we're well aware that California isn't fond of us either - in this case, the breakup is mutual.
- Density 8y agoI would absolutely love for California to leave the Union. They drifted too far from American culture to coexist with the rest of the states.
- axoltl 8y agoCan you expand on that? California being part of the USA makes its culture de facto American.
- Density 8y agoI'm talking about gun rights.
- d1zzy 8y agoNot really sure how California leaving the Union would solve Bay Area's housing crisis. Are you saying that it will negatively affect its economy that tech companies will just stop hiring/leave the area? And what exactly is "American culture", that California (a state where more than 12% of the total US population lives in) drifted from?
- Density 8y agoThere's a deep cultural divide in the US and it's not sustainable. The nation has two cultures within its borders and they're headed for a fight. Last presidential elections were just a small symptom of the underlying issue. The coasts and central us have a difference of opinion on too many fundamental issues. The one that is guaranteed to spark a civil war is the second amendment.
- 8y ago
- tomohawk 8y agoEventually, the government bubble will burst (they'll have to print money to pay for the unfunded liabilities such as social security) and then there will be some tough times. So, in their roundabout way, the politicians are already working on a fix.
- Density 8y agoinflation is generally how markets handle this situation, but there is real weirdness going on wrt food prices being controlled
- oh_sigh 8y agoAccept the fact that, if cities don't want to allow for high density development, then that is their right, and to move your tech startup somewhere else.
- SlowBro 8y agoThere is a very attractive draw to California and places like the Valley for the potential for money to be made with the right connections and people. So a tech startup would likely consider the high cost of living to be just another startup hurdle to clear. When rent costs $7k/month but the potential (dreamed?) payout is $50k/month, and this payout does not seem to be as attainable in other locations due to fewer connections, that would seem to me to be a no-brainer, were I the CEO of a tech startup. Thus, teachers' salaries become collateral damage in the tech startup's quest for greater earnings. I can't see how taller buildings and subways could fix this; they would only delay this problem. I'm not in California, these are just my observations. It seems to me that California is a victim of its own success.
- petra 8y agoGermany. Appartment prices are very stable - risen only 0.05% per year, 1970-2003. And it starts with politics,law I think: there are strong rights in the German constitution for people who want to build on their land - which can override zoning. And the salary of leading local officials is tied to their city's revenue ,and the only way to increase that, is to increase the number of local citizens. And that creates competition between localities.
- monocasa 8y agoI also like Japan's zoning scheme which is based on maximum allowable nuisance. With the exception of some extremely heavy industrial zones, there really aren't places where you can't build housing due to zoning laws. http://urbankchoze.blogspot.com/2014/04/japanese-zoning.html?m=1 http://urbankchoze.blogspot.com/2014/04/japanese-zoning.html...
- rcpt 8y agoSuch a great write up. Could that ever happen here with our hypermicrolocal zoning boards everywhere? Short of Donald Trump vengefully smiting NIMBYs because they blocked his condos in the past I don't see how it's possible.
- SlowBro 8y ago> And that creates competition between localities. That's intriguing. Sets up locations as a sort of free market, if I am not mistaken. Prices are controlled by where people want to be instead of artificially enforced.
- shams93 8y agoRemote work so you can live in Fresno but work in SF.
- hollandheese 8y agoDisallow people/corporations to own more than one piece of residential real estate.
- SlowBro 8y agoEven landlords renting property?
- hollandheese 8y agoYes, especially them. Let the state own all the apartment buildings, then at least the rent can go for something useful to the masses rather than just enriching some person who was already rich enough to own two pieces of property.
- efa 8y agoIf a teacher wants to afford a house they can move to any of the 90% of the states where its doable. I live in San Antonio, where teacher starting salary is $50k and you can easily buy a house for $100k.
- SlowBro 8y agoWhich I suppose would create a vacuum for teachers in CA, which I suppose would cause a schooling crisis, which I suppose would cause the people to cry out for increases in teacher salary to fill the positions, which I suppose would cause greater debts to the state, which I suppose would lead them eventually into default, which I suppose would cause a dramatic reduction in the available budget for public welfare, which I suppose would cause an increase in crime and an exodus from the state, which I suppose would cause property values to drop, which I suppose would cause a further exodus in population, which I suppose would finally make housing more affordable. So perhaps this is a self-regulating problem? :-)