> As for the specific point, in my threat model ISPs aren't competent or rewarded enough to poison VPN clients. Your ISP will know popular VPNs and will defini

> As for the specific point, in my threat model ISPs aren't competent or rewarded enough to poison VPN clients. Your ISP will know popular VPNs and will definitely get in the VPN client/app game. > Comcast may be anti-user, but I don't think it's NSA-capable. My overarching belief is that there are technical solutions to network adversaries. You have much more trust for your ISP than most in tech. > There are fewer (and sometimes no) technical solutions to application adversaries, when I desire to use the service. You can use or not use the services at the app layer full stop. Meanwhile your lack of trust for the app layer being market regulated eventhough the the application layer is more easily blocked and competitive seems biased towards ISPs. Yet you don't seem to mind if ISPs are in reselling your private data that you PAY them to secure, and lobbied to get that additionally entering the VPN game, which they are just not publicly yet. It is a strange position to take if you are being objective about it, that the network is more easily secured than something that runs on the network. I completely disagree and we'll just have to agree to disagree. ISPs have no reason to earn your trust and they have no competitive threats to keep them honest. There can be a #deletefacebook movement because it is possible, there can't be a #deleteyourisp movement because you simply cannot, that is why they are bullies to the customer. ISPs will also be the brownshirts that implement the government firewall that is coming due to insane overreach by authority. ISPs can't wait to further their monopolies buddying up to the authority [1]. Definitely not going to be able to route around that one, 'for your safety'. ISPs want the whole internet to be like hotel wifi. [1] https://www.wired.com/2017/04/internet-censorship-is-advancing-under-trump/ https://www.wired.com/2017/04/internet-censorship-is-advanci...