5 ms·

This was not in the US. My father used to own a computer repair shop. Some of the computers were assembled by us, some were not. After a service was performed,

This was not in the US. My father used to own a computer repair shop. Some of the computers were assembled by us, some were not. After a service was performed, there was a warranty (two months if memory servers). What would happen is that people would pick their computer up, open it, do some stupid stuff, and then come back and try to claim the warranty. Best one was some guy that installed the CPU in a incorrect orientation on purpose, to see if it would "improve performance". Burned out the CPU and motherboard and tried to blame us. This was back at the Pentium Overdrive days. So we started adding those stickers in the case itself. People would be free to remove them, but we would not honor any warranties if so. As a consumer, I know it sucks. But I do know the other side, people will do really stupid things and then try to get others to clean up after them.

jjoonathan 9y ago
The MMWA would not require you to provide service in that case.
opencl 9y ago
In the US manufacturers don't need to fix things that users break but they legally need to prove that the user's actions were the cause of the failure. If someone performs their own oil change on their car and then a wheel falls off the manufacturer can't just say that you popped the hood open so the warranty is void. I'm not a big fan of car analogies but cars were the main reason this law was passed in the first place. In principle this law applies to any purchase over $15 that has a written warranty agreement, but in reality most companies feel free to ignore it because few customers are even aware of the law and even fewer are going to bother going to small claims court over anything less than a few thousand dollars.
- sjg007 9y ago
  In fact limited warranties are a scam. You have express and implied warranties by default. So if you expect your dishwasher to last 10 years but it only lasts 5 and the limited warranty said 1 year.. if that limited warranty was not disclaimed properly then you can take the manufacturer to small claims and most likely win. Companies try to get you to sign a product registration card to get you to agree to the limited warranty. It's all a scam. If your dishwasher blows up, call the manufacturer, ask them to fix it, if they refuse, pay for the repairs then take the manufacturer to small claims court and you will most likely win.
  - dangero 9y ago
    How long do expressed and implied warranties last though?
    - sjg007 9y ago
      Basically the idea is what reasonable people think it should last. I've seen dishwashers still working from the 1970s. So if quality is constantly improving then why didn't my new dishwasher last? So if you can show that, especially from the same manufacturer or brand you should be ok. Otherwise this relies on the judge (who is reasonable by definition) and will have an opinion on the matter. You could also take a random survey of people as to their expectation. Everyone will say 10 years at least. Or just buy a report from a consumer survey company.
      - ReverseCold 9y ago
        > I've seen dishwashers still working from the 1970s. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias No comment on whether things really are becoming lesser quality, but just so you know this exists.
  - lysp 9y ago
    This is a big thing in Australia, new laws that came out in 2011 to emphasis the point. Especially that products should last "as long as you expect them to last". Take TVs for example - if you buy a 80" OLED for $500, it might be expected it'll only last 12-18 months. However if you purchased a 50" 4k TV for a few thousand dollars, the implied warranty might be 5+ years as it's a product of reasonable quality and cost. The best bit about it is that if there is a major fault with the product, the remedies are: 1) Refund, 2) Replacement, or 3) Repair. And it is the consumer/purchaser's choice. So if you purchased a TV for $5000 and then a fault causes it to blow up 5 years later, you can ask to get a full refund, even though the current street value might only be a few hundred dollars. The benefit of this is it forces manufacturers to actually build quality products, knowing they are liable for full refunds if they fail. It reduces the chance that they'll build "planned obsolescence" using cheap parts that might only last 12 months and 1 day (1 day past their "warranty"). A longer explanation is here: https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees/repair-replace-refund https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees...
chrischen 9y ago
And it still happens: https://www.macrumors.com/2018/04/11/iphone-repairs-ambient-light-sensor/ https://www.macrumors.com/2018/04/11/iphone-repairs-ambient-... So I’m wondering how this law addresses this.

jjoonathan 9y ago

The MMWA would not require you to provide service in that case.

opencl 9y ago

In the US manufacturers don't need to fix things that users break but they legally need to prove that the user's actions were the cause of the failure. If someone performs their own oil change on their car and then a wheel falls off the manufacturer can't just say that you popped the hood open so the warranty is void. I'm not a big fan of car analogies but cars were the main reason this law was passed in the first place. In principle this law applies to any purchase over $15 that has a written warranty agreement, but in reality most companies feel free to ignore it because few customers are even aware of the law and even fewer are going to bother going to small claims court over anything less than a few thousand dollars.

sjg007 9y ago
In fact limited warranties are a scam. You have express and implied warranties by default. So if you expect your dishwasher to last 10 years but it only lasts 5 and the limited warranty said 1 year.. if that limited warranty was not disclaimed properly then you can take the manufacturer to small claims and most likely win. Companies try to get you to sign a product registration card to get you to agree to the limited warranty. It's all a scam. If your dishwasher blows up, call the manufacturer, ask them to fix it, if they refuse, pay for the repairs then take the manufacturer to small claims court and you will most likely win.
- dangero 9y ago
  How long do expressed and implied warranties last though?
  - sjg007 9y ago
    Basically the idea is what reasonable people think it should last. I've seen dishwashers still working from the 1970s. So if quality is constantly improving then why didn't my new dishwasher last? So if you can show that, especially from the same manufacturer or brand you should be ok. Otherwise this relies on the judge (who is reasonable by definition) and will have an opinion on the matter. You could also take a random survey of people as to their expectation. Everyone will say 10 years at least. Or just buy a report from a consumer survey company.
    - ReverseCold 9y ago
      > I've seen dishwashers still working from the 1970s. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias No comment on whether things really are becoming lesser quality, but just so you know this exists.
- lysp 9y ago
  This is a big thing in Australia, new laws that came out in 2011 to emphasis the point. Especially that products should last "as long as you expect them to last". Take TVs for example - if you buy a 80" OLED for $500, it might be expected it'll only last 12-18 months. However if you purchased a 50" 4k TV for a few thousand dollars, the implied warranty might be 5+ years as it's a product of reasonable quality and cost. The best bit about it is that if there is a major fault with the product, the remedies are: 1) Refund, 2) Replacement, or 3) Repair. And it is the consumer/purchaser's choice. So if you purchased a TV for $5000 and then a fault causes it to blow up 5 years later, you can ask to get a full refund, even though the current street value might only be a few hundred dollars. The benefit of this is it forces manufacturers to actually build quality products, knowing they are liable for full refunds if they fail. It reduces the chance that they'll build "planned obsolescence" using cheap parts that might only last 12 months and 1 day (1 day past their "warranty"). A longer explanation is here: https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees/repair-replace-refund https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees...

chrischen 9y ago

And it still happens: https://www.macrumors.com/2018/04/11/iphone-repairs-ambient-light-sensor/ https://www.macrumors.com/2018/04/11/iphone-repairs-ambient-... So I’m wondering how this law addresses this.