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It's interesting seeing all the men supporting 'sex work' when it is the woman who is left to deal with the repercussions of her body being used and abused for
by yters 9y ago
It's interesting seeing all the men supporting 'sex work' when it is the woman who is left to deal with the repercussions of her body being used and abused for money. The real problem is not the crack down, but the social forces that make women feel like this is the only source of income available to them, and the dirtbag men who take advantage of them. This does not boost my opinion of internet "intellectuals", nor of the HN community who seem largely in favor of taking advantage of women in this way.
- esarbe 9y agoSex work is work. Just like a job in a mine or on an oil rig it might be an unhealthy, dangerous job with serious health repercussions. But it's a job nonetheless. Would I prefer a world where men didn't have to waste their health in mines and women theirs in prostitution? Sure, I'm all for a UBI. But it is hypocrisy to treat these professions and the health implications they have as any different.
- yters 9y agoMining is a legitimate need. Men don't need prostitutes. What men need is to treat women as equal human beings, and not a vessel for their lusts.
- esarbe 9y agoYou make it sound as if lust was something bad. Interesting. Sexual intercourse is as much a necessity as is mining. More so, I'd say. Humans are not mining machines, they are reproduction machines. To deny this is to deny human nature. Also, sex in and in itself has nothing to do with respect or disrespect. It's simply a physical act.
- yters 9y agoIt is. Lust makes one person dehumanize another person and use them as a tool for their own pleasure. Anytime we dehumanize each other it is bad, regardless of the negative consequences, of which there are many (broken families, STDs, domestic violence, child abuse, etc.)
- esarbe 9y agoEven if you could make prostitution go away by making it illegal -- you cannot, otherwise we woundn't have this discussion --, you go a tad far by making it responsible for broken families, STDs, domestic violence and child abuse. All these things you'd have. With of without prostitution. These are issues of the human condition, not something that can be magicked away by prohibiting the act of sexual intercourse for economic benefits. It just doesn't work. There have been many moral and religious campaigns to make prostitution illegal. And still we have broken families, STDs, domestic violence, child abuse, etc. As for the dehumanizing effect of sexual intercourse; you might be on to something. But sex is a strange thing that cannot really be understood by thinking very hard about it. So; some very independent women like to be degraded during sex, so do some men. This is just part of the spectrum. As long as everybody involved consents, I don't see the problem.
- yters 9y agoConsent is not a magic wand that makes all actions moral. And yes, brokeness will be with us for all time. So, your solution is to just allow things to get worse? Sometimes you have to take a hard stand on things to help people not destroy themselves.
- esarbe 9y agoIt's not as if there were any absolute moral values. And if everybody involved can give informed consent, why should that not be enough?
- ihsw2 9y agoSelf-control and empathy are absolute moral values, there are many but these two form the core of the civilizing process. A society where these two are absent is a society of anarchy and self-destruction. To imply that all social norms and taboos are moot in the face of individuality is to imply that the individual is the core atom of humanity and it clearly is not -- it is the family.
- 9y ago
- lovich 9y agoSo sometimes people from one gender or the other can't get sex through casual relationships through one reason or the other, like large groups of men dieing in a war, China's gender imbalance, a shitty personality, etc. Are you saying that they don't need sex at all and should go without? Because that's a pretty puritanical viewpoint that hasn't been backed up by any sort of history. Additionally "need" can be pretty subjective. People's sex drives are some thing they are born with. We don't "need" rare earth metals to have shiny electronics so why is it ok to have people forced into mining by it being their only choice economically?
- ocdtrekkie 9y agoI am male and expressed an opinion that prostitution should be legal. But I have no desire to ever actually use such a service personally. My opinion is based largely on the fact that there are plenty of women who want to do this, or particularly enjoy it, as well as the unfortunate cases of people who feel they have no other choice. In either of those cases, punishing the people who are in this industry is wrong.
- yters 9y agoPunishment is a legitimate disincentive. Are there going to be fewer prostitutes when it is safe and easy? If the field is inherently injurious to women, why should we incentivize women to become prostitutes in any way?
- bradjohnson 9y agoAdult women are not helpless children and I believe that any societal pressure that they might feel to pursue a damaging lifestyle can be dealt with before any punishment for exercising bodily autonomy should ever be considered.
- yters 9y agoPerhaps, but making it easier for them to make bad choices is not the way to go.
- esarbe 9y agoI don't agree that prostitution is a bad choice. It's a legitimate choice, a legal choice in some countries. The only problems it causes are from the illegality hat the women (and men) performing it are driven into. They are not protected by regulations, they don't receive pensions and they don't pay taxes. There are a lot of jobs that might not be the best life choices. But that's no reason to make it illegal and force the people performing these jobs underground.
- deleted 9y ago
- Freestyler_3 9y agoLet's just ignore all the women who want to do this work, to protect the few who didn't want to but felt like it was the only way to make ends meet. But yes, I am sure people generally agree that the women who don't want to be sex workers should have other options (or be made aware of options).
- yters 9y agoEven if someone wants to do something, that doesn't mean it is good for them. We as a society should not incentivize people to do self harm, even if the person chooses the self harm. It is essentially incentivizing women to commit suicide.
- Freestyler_3 9y agoWhat isn't good for them? How do you get from sex to suicide? And how far can society go when dictating what a person can or can not do? People are allowed to smoke and drink. People have sex without payments happening too.
- yters 9y agoTo be a sex worker, a woman is having multiple sex partners per day. Her exposure to STDs, and abuse in general, is increased exponentially. That is essentially suicide.
- esarbe 9y agoSo is working in a coal mine. I agree that I would rather have no-one working in such conditions, but that's the economical reality we live in. As long as we force people to do unpleasant and potentially harmful jobs for a living, I don't see any reason to differentiate between oil-rig workers and prostitutes. By making it legal, prostitutes enjoy legal protection, health and social benefits. What's not to like?
- yters 9y agoCoal miners, oil rig workers, soldiers, policemen, firemen, doctors. These are all necessary jobs to make our society run. Prostitution is both unnecessary and destructive to all parties involved. Clear difference between the two categories.