8 ms·

The way Cambridge Analytica's got its data was a little nefarious...as I understand it, they obtained data through ways Facebook discouraged (but still enabled)

by m52go 9y ago

The way Cambridge Analytica's got its data was a little nefarious...as I understand it, they obtained data through ways Facebook discouraged (but still enabled). Whether you consider that an 'exploit' or not is subjective. It's certainly not an 'exploit' in the more common infosec sense. But the real issue here is that Facebook was complicit in electing Donald Trump. It's political.

Consultant32452 9y ago
>But the real issue here is that Facebook was complicit in electing Donald Trump. It's political. This bit is really terrifying to me. I don't support Trump, but the idea that we're going to make it even harder for "unapproved" political candidates should make everyone's skin crawl.
- sincerely 9y ago
  I thought the issue was that foreign actors were able to use Facebook to push for their candidate of choice, not that Trump was "unapproved" (why do you use quotes? that phrase doesn't appear anywhere in the comment you're responding to).
  - ibejoeb 9y ago
    Why is it important that Facebook was the medium? Zuck just done saying that they identified 400-500 Russian accounts the were politically active. The "unapproved" in quotes part there is that these are Russians. Simultaneously, there were tens of thousands of foreign nationals demonstrating in the streets of major cities all over the country, and this is "approved." This is why I'm left wondering: what are we after?
  - Consultant32452 9y ago
    I don't believe for a second that this much fuss would have been made over this issue if Trump had lost the election. Some law enforcement action may have been taken, but it wouldn't have been front page news. The reason for my quotes is that Trump is "unapproved" which is the explanation for the scale of the reaction. I don't particularly approve of him either, but considering the real motivations of the people writing regulation is important.
    - singingboyo 9y ago
      Of course there wouldn't be as much fuss about it. Trump losing the election would imply that the attempts at influencing people were unsuccessful. At a glance, that would indicate that regulation is unnecessary (though detailed analysis could show otherwise).
      - Consultant32452 9y ago
        Foreign spending on political FB ads was a drop in the ocean. Especially when you consider it played to both sides (acknowledge it leaned towards Trump), was not all in swing states, and a lot of it was after the election. This is almost certainly not about them.
      - bimr 9y ago
        So, in other words, only regulate to prevent challengers. This is precisely what Facebook and the political establishment hope to achieve.
  - white-flame 9y ago
    This was all happening at the time when Obama was over in France campaigning for his preferred candidate. Why is that not considered equally improper?
  - bordercases 9y ago
    > foreign actors First it's Russia and now it's Cambridge Analytica. Unless you can trace CA's business activities to foreign hires or somehow devaluing the influence of the former for the latter, even though the Russian angle was what was being pushed around for a good while as The Reason Trump became so favoured (rather than actual failures of the Democratic party!), methinks it's just the alphabet agencies and co. looking for excuses.
- drngdds 9y ago
  I'm okay with it when the political candidate is as objectively bad as Donald Trump
pcunite 9y ago
The real issue is that, as noted by Thom Tillis, this "feature" was most likely used by others, up to and including, the Obama campaign.
HillaryBriss 9y ago
i thought that the data flow was: 1. FB users took a personality survey conducted by some researchers at Cambridge University. 2. Then one of those researchers sold the data they'd collected on FB users to the newly formed Cambridge Analytica. 3. The Trump campaign employed CA and CA used this data to directly message FB users who'd completed the personality survey At some point, FB learned of this unapproved resale of this data and requested that CA delete the data set. But CA did not delete the data set. Assuming I have the story right, what I don't quite get is: why didn't FB start aggressively suing people who'd taken this data and misused it? FB could have started with a lawsuit against the researcher who sold the data in the first place.
- amarkov 9y ago
  CA told Facebook that they did delete the data set. FB (if you believe their timeline) only discovered they lied when the scandal started circulating in the news.
  - HillaryBriss 9y ago
    Thanks for additional info and clarification. So ... what about now? Wouldn't it be a good move for FB to start taking legal action against CA, the survey group, and anyone in sight in order to create the impression that they want to protect user data? I'm thinking of corporations like Oracle, Microsoft, and Disney (very litigious corporations) -- isn't this a good time for FB to start acting more like those companies?
    - amarkov 9y ago
      Facebook sent forensic auditors to investigate CA. There was a general public perception that this was sketchy (what if they're really trying to destroy evidence implicating themselves?), and they were asked to stand down by British law enforcement. Facebook's position is that they should have done more to stop companies like CA from being in a position to abuse user data - and implicitly, that there's no need for strong regulations to make them do it. Suing everyone in sight would make it seem like they're trying to create a narrative where they did nothing wrong.

by m52go 9y ago

Consultant32452 9y ago

>But the real issue here is that Facebook was complicit in electing Donald Trump. It's political. This bit is really terrifying to me. I don't support Trump, but the idea that we're going to make it even harder for "unapproved" political candidates should make everyone's skin crawl.

sincerely 9y ago
I thought the issue was that foreign actors were able to use Facebook to push for their candidate of choice, not that Trump was "unapproved" (why do you use quotes? that phrase doesn't appear anywhere in the comment you're responding to).
- ibejoeb 9y ago
  Why is it important that Facebook was the medium? Zuck just done saying that they identified 400-500 Russian accounts the were politically active. The "unapproved" in quotes part there is that these are Russians. Simultaneously, there were tens of thousands of foreign nationals demonstrating in the streets of major cities all over the country, and this is "approved." This is why I'm left wondering: what are we after?
- Consultant32452 9y ago
  I don't believe for a second that this much fuss would have been made over this issue if Trump had lost the election. Some law enforcement action may have been taken, but it wouldn't have been front page news. The reason for my quotes is that Trump is "unapproved" which is the explanation for the scale of the reaction. I don't particularly approve of him either, but considering the real motivations of the people writing regulation is important.
  - singingboyo 9y ago
    Of course there wouldn't be as much fuss about it. Trump losing the election would imply that the attempts at influencing people were unsuccessful. At a glance, that would indicate that regulation is unnecessary (though detailed analysis could show otherwise).
    - Consultant32452 9y ago
      Foreign spending on political FB ads was a drop in the ocean. Especially when you consider it played to both sides (acknowledge it leaned towards Trump), was not all in swing states, and a lot of it was after the election. This is almost certainly not about them.
    - bimr 9y ago
      So, in other words, only regulate to prevent challengers. This is precisely what Facebook and the political establishment hope to achieve.
- white-flame 9y ago
  This was all happening at the time when Obama was over in France campaigning for his preferred candidate. Why is that not considered equally improper?
- bordercases 9y ago
  > foreign actors First it's Russia and now it's Cambridge Analytica. Unless you can trace CA's business activities to foreign hires or somehow devaluing the influence of the former for the latter, even though the Russian angle was what was being pushed around for a good while as The Reason Trump became so favoured (rather than actual failures of the Democratic party!), methinks it's just the alphabet agencies and co. looking for excuses.
drngdds 9y ago
I'm okay with it when the political candidate is as objectively bad as Donald Trump

pcunite 9y ago

The real issue is that, as noted by Thom Tillis, this "feature" was most likely used by others, up to and including, the Obama campaign.

HillaryBriss 9y ago

i thought that the data flow was: 1. FB users took a personality survey conducted by some researchers at Cambridge University. 2. Then one of those researchers sold the data they'd collected on FB users to the newly formed Cambridge Analytica. 3. The Trump campaign employed CA and CA used this data to directly message FB users who'd completed the personality survey At some point, FB learned of this unapproved resale of this data and requested that CA delete the data set. But CA did not delete the data set. Assuming I have the story right, what I don't quite get is: why didn't FB start aggressively suing people who'd taken this data and misused it? FB could have started with a lawsuit against the researcher who sold the data in the first place.

amarkov 9y ago
CA told Facebook that they did delete the data set. FB (if you believe their timeline) only discovered they lied when the scandal started circulating in the news.
- HillaryBriss 9y ago
  Thanks for additional info and clarification. So ... what about now? Wouldn't it be a good move for FB to start taking legal action against CA, the survey group, and anyone in sight in order to create the impression that they want to protect user data? I'm thinking of corporations like Oracle, Microsoft, and Disney (very litigious corporations) -- isn't this a good time for FB to start acting more like those companies?
  - amarkov 9y ago
    Facebook sent forensic auditors to investigate CA. There was a general public perception that this was sketchy (what if they're really trying to destroy evidence implicating themselves?), and they were asked to stand down by British law enforcement. Facebook's position is that they should have done more to stop companies like CA from being in a position to abuse user data - and implicitly, that there's no need for strong regulations to make them do it. Suing everyone in sight would make it seem like they're trying to create a narrative where they did nothing wrong.