5 ms·

Many people do all kinds of jobs they wouldn't otherwise do for survival. Sex isn't magically different from backbreaking manual labor.

pastage 9y ago
Back breaking manual labor is not legal, or rather you can be forced to pay rather steep fines for doing it. (The definition of the words we use is key here)
- orthecreedence 9y ago
  Back-breaking isn't generally used in the literal sense, but to describe something very difficult. Legality is regional, and often doesn't apply to contractors or, say, a farm owner.
- Notorious_BLT 9y ago
  Sorry for lack of precision, but I think my intent was clear. "Back-breaking" here means "difficult, and undesirable manual labor". What I meant in the first place (which I think was clear to begin with, regardless of language) is that many people make choices to do jobs they wouldn't otherwise because they need the money. Many jobs are taken for survival. Prostitution isn't really significantly different than any other undesirable job, aside from the emotional significance that we often assign to sex. But there isn't fundamentally anything about sex that differentiates it.
  - pastage 8y ago
    This was not my point, from what I've understood sex work is a really high risk work. You might argue that it could be made safer, but to state that prostitution is like any other work is just a sign of you ignoring the real problems that exist in the sex industry. You can not separate the act with the environment it is done in. I would compare sex workers to something that is way more safer, mining jobs. You only have safe mining jobs if you strive towards it, same goes for sex work. For the record I've lived with a family with a daughter/mother in the in the sex industry of a port city, but do not base my views on those anecdotal evidence. But sure it colours it a lot.
ihsw2 9y ago
Prostitution trivializes sex by converting it to an activity fueled by capitalist incentives, forcing women to transfer control to her client rather than keeping it in her individual control. It is definitely different in that consent is removed by economic force rather than physical force.
- djsumdog 9y ago
  Why do we take sex so seriously? What's wrong with trivializing it? We don't make a big deal about kissing, or playing golf? Animals often fuck without consent (although most other mammals have mating sessions that last less than 15 seconds). There is a really interesting dynamic in humans where we have either evolved or socially constructed (or both) this very strong sense of importance (and also shame) around sex. Part of this has to do with ownership and the fact that we possess things and status which we pass on to a known set of descendants. You can look at a beautiful peace of art that's colorful and evokes incredible emotions .. and that's art. Two people fucking and it's not art, it's porn .. unless it's in an art gallery as an exhibit about the porn industry. I wish our University wasn't so insanely big. It'd be interesting to find other sentient life and see if all life tends to evolve this specific attitude around sex or if it's unique to our species.
  - yters 9y ago
    Sex is where new people come from. Once a society loses this perspective it dies.
    - z0r 9y ago
      It is well worth reserving some things from being subsumed directly by the economic system. I don't understand the distinction ihsw2 is trying to make with the repeated argument about removal of consent, but I would agree if they simply were arguing that human sex shouldn't be commodified.
      - yters 9y ago
        Economic and societal forces are making these women let men use their bodies. In form it looks different than traditional rape, but in function it is no different. Women are being forced to let complete strangers abuse their bodies in the most intimate ways possible.
orthecreedence 9y ago
I don't know why you're being downvoted. I agree completely. Sex work, when legal and regulated, is just like any other vocation. Putting female sex workers onto some inexplicable pedestal doesn't make sense. It seems like ihsw2 has a problem with markets in general. I agree that it sucks sometimes people are forced to do things they don't like for economic reasons, but that is not a problem specific to prostitution, and treating prostitution like a special class of work that's somehow different from other jobs is counterproductive to what sex workers are trying to accomplish, I believe.

pastage 9y ago

Back breaking manual labor is not legal, or rather you can be forced to pay rather steep fines for doing it. (The definition of the words we use is key here)

orthecreedence 9y ago
Back-breaking isn't generally used in the literal sense, but to describe something very difficult. Legality is regional, and often doesn't apply to contractors or, say, a farm owner.
Notorious_BLT 9y ago
Sorry for lack of precision, but I think my intent was clear. "Back-breaking" here means "difficult, and undesirable manual labor". What I meant in the first place (which I think was clear to begin with, regardless of language) is that many people make choices to do jobs they wouldn't otherwise because they need the money. Many jobs are taken for survival. Prostitution isn't really significantly different than any other undesirable job, aside from the emotional significance that we often assign to sex. But there isn't fundamentally anything about sex that differentiates it.
- pastage 8y ago
  This was not my point, from what I've understood sex work is a really high risk work. You might argue that it could be made safer, but to state that prostitution is like any other work is just a sign of you ignoring the real problems that exist in the sex industry. You can not separate the act with the environment it is done in. I would compare sex workers to something that is way more safer, mining jobs. You only have safe mining jobs if you strive towards it, same goes for sex work. For the record I've lived with a family with a daughter/mother in the in the sex industry of a port city, but do not base my views on those anecdotal evidence. But sure it colours it a lot.

ihsw2 9y ago

Prostitution trivializes sex by converting it to an activity fueled by capitalist incentives, forcing women to transfer control to her client rather than keeping it in her individual control. It is definitely different in that consent is removed by economic force rather than physical force.

djsumdog 9y ago
Why do we take sex so seriously? What's wrong with trivializing it? We don't make a big deal about kissing, or playing golf? Animals often fuck without consent (although most other mammals have mating sessions that last less than 15 seconds). There is a really interesting dynamic in humans where we have either evolved or socially constructed (or both) this very strong sense of importance (and also shame) around sex. Part of this has to do with ownership and the fact that we possess things and status which we pass on to a known set of descendants. You can look at a beautiful peace of art that's colorful and evokes incredible emotions .. and that's art. Two people fucking and it's not art, it's porn .. unless it's in an art gallery as an exhibit about the porn industry. I wish our University wasn't so insanely big. It'd be interesting to find other sentient life and see if all life tends to evolve this specific attitude around sex or if it's unique to our species.
- yters 9y ago
  Sex is where new people come from. Once a society loses this perspective it dies.
  - z0r 9y ago
    It is well worth reserving some things from being subsumed directly by the economic system. I don't understand the distinction ihsw2 is trying to make with the repeated argument about removal of consent, but I would agree if they simply were arguing that human sex shouldn't be commodified.
    - yters 9y ago
      Economic and societal forces are making these women let men use their bodies. In form it looks different than traditional rape, but in function it is no different. Women are being forced to let complete strangers abuse their bodies in the most intimate ways possible.

orthecreedence 9y ago

I don't know why you're being downvoted. I agree completely. Sex work, when legal and regulated, is just like any other vocation. Putting female sex workers onto some inexplicable pedestal doesn't make sense. It seems like ihsw2 has a problem with markets in general. I agree that it sucks sometimes people are forced to do things they don't like for economic reasons, but that is not a problem specific to prostitution, and treating prostitution like a special class of work that's somehow different from other jobs is counterproductive to what sex workers are trying to accomplish, I believe.