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> Fasting is tremendously helpful to productivity. Nothing will hinder your performance like a huge meal in the morning (especially one high in carbohydrates)

> Fasting is tremendously helpful to productivity. Nothing will hinder your performance like a huge meal in the morning (especially one high in carbohydrates) This seems to be really getting popular. What's the science behind it? I'm curious if this is mainly anecdotal or if you did some research before jumping in. My 2 cents: as an endurance athlete and student of nutrition, skipping breakfast seems like a bad idea. Those calories get burned and put to use relatively quickly, at least compared to a meal later in the day, like dinner (with the caveat that this does depend on your metabolism and when you're most active).

whalesalad 9y ago
It's definitely anecdotal as-in based on my own personal experience. I fast for a few reasons: 1. Breakfast is not necessary, so skipping this meal saves me time in the morning. I already gotta worry about getting ready, feeding the dog+antibiotics, taking him out to pee, etc... one less thing to worry about. 2. Fasting for extended periods while in a ketogenic state accelerate fat loss. (the primary reason I fast) 3. I have noticed performance benefits with skipping the meal. (the cherry on top) Really excellent guide: http://burnfatnotsugar.com/intermittent-fasting.html http://burnfatnotsugar.com/intermittent-fasting.html
- eafkuor 9y ago
  What do you mean breakfast is not "necessary"? No single meal is necessary, obviously, but why skip it? > skipping this meal saves me time in the morning. I already gotta worry about getting ready, feeding the dog+antibiotics, taking him out to pee, etc... one less thing to worry about. I really can't understand how you can put "getting ready" and feeding your dog above your own nutrition. Maybe you don't enjoy food the same way that I do. How do you not have 10 minutes to eat something in the morning? It just boggles my mind > Fasting for extended periods while in a ketogenic state accelerate fat loss Why not just eat 3 meals per day but smaller portions? Isn't that more sustainable psychologically (and maybe physically)?
  - Jemmeh 9y ago
    Basically there's a lot of health benefits to intermittent fasting. This video covers a lot of it quite well & links to sources. Longevity & Why I Eat Once Per Day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKfR6bAXr-c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKfR6bAXr-c
  - bloodorange 9y ago
    Please correct me if I'm mistaken but your comment seems to rely on the assumption that it is not reasonable if someone chooses to not make 10 minutes of time for breakfast. While I do not wish to state my position on the "making time for breakfast" matter, I do, however, wish to state that if you _are_ indeed starting from that assumption, you are not really trying to understand where the other person is coming from.
  - FooHentai 9y ago
    >I really can't understand how you can put "getting ready" and feeding your dog above your own nutrition. >Maybe you don't enjoy food the same way that I do. First, these are two separate thoughts, unless you have some confusion between 'proper nutrition' and 'enjoyment of food'. Second, 'proper nutrition' and 'enjoyment of food' often conflict since what provides the best nutritional value to your body is not often aligned with what tastes the best. I think the different between you and OP's position is that you see a link between 'nutrition' and the breakfast event. What's your reasoning for believing that breakfast is important with regards to your body's nutrition/health? Do you understand it to be of short-term (i.e. energy levels before lunch) or long-term importance?
    - mantas 9y ago
      Actually "proper nutrition" and "enjoyment of food" are closely related. Although our bodies are selfish. For example, we like sugar so much because it's good yet used to be scarce. Now we finally can get plenty of it, but our body gets greedy and we overeat it.
      - suprfnk 9y ago
        > Actually "proper nutrition" and "enjoyment of food" are closely related. I don't think that is the case for the vast majority of people. If I would only eat according to my "enjoyment of food" I would probably only eat cake and chocolate. I don't do that, of course, because I value "proper nutrition" for my body above my "enjoyment of food". I see relatively few people around me that would take broccoli over cake if they are eating for "enjoyment of food".
- quantumfoam 9y ago
  +1 on the fasting, say what you would like about the products that HVMN (formally nootrobox) sells, but they have an awesome blog that covers keto/ketosis and nootropics use in general. Update: didn't link. https://hvmn.com/blog/ https://hvmn.com/blog/
callmeed 9y ago
Google "intermittent fasting studies" and you'll find plenty of information. Of course, if you're an endurance athlete its probably bad to skip breakfast before a race or big training regimen. I'm as skeptical of fad diets as anyone, but it seems like science is starting to back-up the notion that some fasting is good for weight loss (lower calories, kick-starts ketosis) and brain function. And it seems to line up with common sense, considering our bodies evolved for thousands of years of food scarcity.
- ngngngng 9y ago
  I'll have to read up on that before forming and opinion, but I wonder if this hinges on a person being overweight, or regularly consuming a calorie surplus.
  - callmeed 9y ago
    Yes, but that's most of Americans you're describing
aviv 9y ago
This will one day be as obvious as cigarettes cause cancer is. Prolonged fasting (consuming only water for 10 to 40 days) is a highly effective treatment for many diseases, including Crohn's, most other IBS related, diabetes, MS, and many more. At some point in the future we will consider pharma companies, government agencies and other entities hiding this fact to be criminal. Edit: my personal hope is that water fasting becomes mainstream and cures many people before my HN karma reaches 0.
- SketchySeaBeast 9y ago
  Do you partake in any sort of sports? As someone who is avidly into strength training, I can't imagine the damage that does to gaining and maintaining muscle mass, and sabotaging your ability to push hard and perform well in the gym.
  - tcoff91 9y ago
    Yeah you would definitely need to take a break from strength training to do an extended fast. Not everyone's goals however are to get huge muscles and for many health goals there is a lot of research showing that fasting has great benefits. It's probably one of the best ways to lower your risk of cancer.
    - SmellyGeekBoy 9y ago
      > Not everyone's goals however are to get huge muscles I should point out that strength training != bodybuilding
  - projectramo 9y ago
    As with so many things in health and nutrition, there is a lot of contradictory advice out there. I can't tell you which one is right, but I have heard many people say never skip protein, because you need it every 2 hours, and others say: https://www.bodybuilding.com/content/intermittent-fasting-everything-you-need-to-know.html https://www.bodybuilding.com/content/intermittent-fasting-ev...
reitanqild 9y ago
As others have mentioned there seems to be a number of studies about the health benefits of itermittent fasting. (I really love big breakfasts though:-) For me however I do it because I get less tired during the day if I wait until lunch before I eat. (Fasting completely seems to work even better but is less of an option after I got a family that wants me to eat dinner with them.)
reubenswartz 9y ago
I started skipping breakfast a while back after having a big dinner the night before and realizing I wasn't hungry. I felt better than if I ate just because it was "time to eat." Over time, I moved the threshold, and I don't eat breakfast, except for a shot of espresso. It feels much better. Earlier, I had worked to cut out carbs at lunch (because they were making me sleepy in the middle of the afternoon). With breakfast being so simple, I have to make sure I have a healthy lunch (went out to eat and failed today), and then I don't stress too much about dinner. YMMV, but this system has worked really well for me. As for the science, there's a lot of research, but no one really knows how all of our elaborate cellular machinery works. However, there seems to be some notion of the body being in "digestion" or "maintenance/repair" mode. Letting your body get into the latter mode seems to have some really good effects.
- reubenswartz 9y ago
  Update-- of course, yesterday my wife made amazing oatmeal raisin cookies. I have no need to buy junk at the grocery store, but put a plate of homemade cookies in front of me, and "game over, man".
ThrustVectoring 9y ago
The super brief science is that your nervous system is divided into two opposing parts - the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems. These systems inhibit the other when the one is activated. Programming in particular activates and works better with the sympathetic "flight-or-flight" nervous system, while eating food (particularly heavy meals) will activate the parasympathetic "rest-and-digest" nervous system. Plus, removing unnecessary breaks and decisions in your day can help too.
Tomminn 9y ago
So right now I'm 63 hours into a fast, which I just decided to do on a lark. I've been intrigued ever since hearing an interesting podcast on fasting (https://tim.blog/2017/05/04/smart-drugs-fasting-and-fat-loss/ https://tim.blog/2017/05/04/smart-drugs-fasting-and-fat-loss...). At this stage, I have started to find mental things a little harder to do, but honestly its still pretty subtle and is pretty indistinguishable from the normal kinds of self pity I normally have when I sit down to complete some hard mental task. Physical tasks are obviously a different story. But your mind doesn't seem to slow down much at all for a pretty long time during fasting. I think that's the main thing I'll take away from this experience. Eating does not improve mental performance, at least not unless we're talking about a multiple-day timescale. I now believe that it may slightly degrade it, because your gut gets greedy for your that thought-fuelling blood. This is useful knowledge to have gained because so often I think "ooo, feel a bit dumb, better eat."
- drb91 9y ago
  > Physical tasks are obviously a different story. But your mind doesn't seem to slow down much at all for a pretty long time during fasting. I’m not sure i agree with this. Highly productive sessions always end with me feeling exhausted despite just concentrating intently for several hours. Doesn’t your brain already consume like 30% of your energy? It would really surprise me if your brain operated at full capacity after 2+ days of no calories.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - Tomminn 9y ago
    The assumption you're making is that your brain gets no calories when you have no food. Every kilogram of fat on your body is 9000 calories just sitting there. Most of us have at least 10 of em, or 90,000 calories. While it's definitely true that some things slow down to conserve energy, it seems like the brain isn't one of em. There are moments* now I feel I'm thinking considerably clearer than usual. The world just feels unbelievably quiet. And things are getting done. *I don't want to sell it as if it's all sunshine and rainbows. So far, getting to sleep has been hell, and the hunger pangs at times have been pretty insistent. While the hunger seems to have gone now, I have a general feeling of physical frailty, including lightheadedness when I stand up, and occasional light nausea.
mandrake-c-papi 9y ago
As a fellow endurance athlete who has experimented with fasting I would say don't waste your time. While I do think the response to fasting is somewhat personal, for me the impact upon long-term fitness, work/life stress (cortisol) [1] and ongoing metabolism [2] is just too severe to be ignored. [1] https://www.precisionnutrition.com/all-about-cortisol https://www.precisionnutrition.com/all-about-cortisol [2] https://www.outsideonline.com/2284636/scientific-case-big-breakfast https://www.outsideonline.com/2284636/scientific-case-big-br...
wastedhours 9y ago
If you're fasting to lose weight, then you're probably also calorie restricting at those other meals anyway, and so eating later in the day and taking the "food coma" into the afternoon is better for productivity than in the morning (for me). I went through a phase of only eating lunch at 12pm - so I'd be fasting for nearly 24 hours daily (of course, tied alongside severe calorie restriction meant I was losing weight at an unhealthy rate). Whilst probably horrendous for me long-term, and raising quite a few questions about my general health, I felt fantastic doing that. Some days I even felt like just randomly running along the pavement I had that much energy. So, there might be some science behind it, honestly not sure - but that anecdata does make it a compelling thing to try.
eddieroger 9y ago
I am not an endurance athlete, and I wouldn't even consider myself a health nut, but I know that i wake up hungry, and if I don't eat something (usually a fruit and greens smoothie with protein power and almond milk), I get too hungry to focus on work. I've also noticed that since I got more rigorous about eating (drinking) breakfast, I don't get as hungry late at night. It's almost, anecdotally, like my body know it can expect fuel in the morning and doesn't spend the evening stockpiling.
adamzk 9y ago
I've also heard a convincing argument that there's an evolutionary response to prolonged hunger akin to fight or flight response that enhances cognition to better enable us to find food.

whalesalad 9y ago

It's definitely anecdotal as-in based on my own personal experience. I fast for a few reasons: 1. Breakfast is not necessary, so skipping this meal saves me time in the morning. I already gotta worry about getting ready, feeding the dog+antibiotics, taking him out to pee, etc... one less thing to worry about. 2. Fasting for extended periods while in a ketogenic state accelerate fat loss. (the primary reason I fast) 3. I have noticed performance benefits with skipping the meal. (the cherry on top) Really excellent guide: http://burnfatnotsugar.com/intermittent-fasting.html http://burnfatnotsugar.com/intermittent-fasting.html

eafkuor 9y ago
What do you mean breakfast is not "necessary"? No single meal is necessary, obviously, but why skip it? > skipping this meal saves me time in the morning. I already gotta worry about getting ready, feeding the dog+antibiotics, taking him out to pee, etc... one less thing to worry about. I really can't understand how you can put "getting ready" and feeding your dog above your own nutrition. Maybe you don't enjoy food the same way that I do. How do you not have 10 minutes to eat something in the morning? It just boggles my mind > Fasting for extended periods while in a ketogenic state accelerate fat loss Why not just eat 3 meals per day but smaller portions? Isn't that more sustainable psychologically (and maybe physically)?
- Jemmeh 9y ago
  Basically there's a lot of health benefits to intermittent fasting. This video covers a lot of it quite well & links to sources. Longevity & Why I Eat Once Per Day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKfR6bAXr-c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKfR6bAXr-c
- bloodorange 9y ago
  Please correct me if I'm mistaken but your comment seems to rely on the assumption that it is not reasonable if someone chooses to not make 10 minutes of time for breakfast. While I do not wish to state my position on the "making time for breakfast" matter, I do, however, wish to state that if you _are_ indeed starting from that assumption, you are not really trying to understand where the other person is coming from.
- FooHentai 9y ago
  >I really can't understand how you can put "getting ready" and feeding your dog above your own nutrition. >Maybe you don't enjoy food the same way that I do. First, these are two separate thoughts, unless you have some confusion between 'proper nutrition' and 'enjoyment of food'. Second, 'proper nutrition' and 'enjoyment of food' often conflict since what provides the best nutritional value to your body is not often aligned with what tastes the best. I think the different between you and OP's position is that you see a link between 'nutrition' and the breakfast event. What's your reasoning for believing that breakfast is important with regards to your body's nutrition/health? Do you understand it to be of short-term (i.e. energy levels before lunch) or long-term importance?
  - mantas 9y ago
    Actually "proper nutrition" and "enjoyment of food" are closely related. Although our bodies are selfish. For example, we like sugar so much because it's good yet used to be scarce. Now we finally can get plenty of it, but our body gets greedy and we overeat it.
    - suprfnk 9y ago
      > Actually "proper nutrition" and "enjoyment of food" are closely related. I don't think that is the case for the vast majority of people. If I would only eat according to my "enjoyment of food" I would probably only eat cake and chocolate. I don't do that, of course, because I value "proper nutrition" for my body above my "enjoyment of food". I see relatively few people around me that would take broccoli over cake if they are eating for "enjoyment of food".
quantumfoam 9y ago
+1 on the fasting, say what you would like about the products that HVMN (formally nootrobox) sells, but they have an awesome blog that covers keto/ketosis and nootropics use in general. Update: didn't link. https://hvmn.com/blog/ https://hvmn.com/blog/

callmeed 9y ago

Google "intermittent fasting studies" and you'll find plenty of information. Of course, if you're an endurance athlete its probably bad to skip breakfast before a race or big training regimen. I'm as skeptical of fad diets as anyone, but it seems like science is starting to back-up the notion that some fasting is good for weight loss (lower calories, kick-starts ketosis) and brain function. And it seems to line up with common sense, considering our bodies evolved for thousands of years of food scarcity.

ngngngng 9y ago
I'll have to read up on that before forming and opinion, but I wonder if this hinges on a person being overweight, or regularly consuming a calorie surplus.
- callmeed 9y ago
  Yes, but that's most of Americans you're describing

aviv 9y ago

This will one day be as obvious as cigarettes cause cancer is. Prolonged fasting (consuming only water for 10 to 40 days) is a highly effective treatment for many diseases, including Crohn's, most other IBS related, diabetes, MS, and many more. At some point in the future we will consider pharma companies, government agencies and other entities hiding this fact to be criminal. Edit: my personal hope is that water fasting becomes mainstream and cures many people before my HN karma reaches 0.

SketchySeaBeast 9y ago
Do you partake in any sort of sports? As someone who is avidly into strength training, I can't imagine the damage that does to gaining and maintaining muscle mass, and sabotaging your ability to push hard and perform well in the gym.
- tcoff91 9y ago
  Yeah you would definitely need to take a break from strength training to do an extended fast. Not everyone's goals however are to get huge muscles and for many health goals there is a lot of research showing that fasting has great benefits. It's probably one of the best ways to lower your risk of cancer.
  - SmellyGeekBoy 9y ago
    > Not everyone's goals however are to get huge muscles I should point out that strength training != bodybuilding
- projectramo 9y ago
  As with so many things in health and nutrition, there is a lot of contradictory advice out there. I can't tell you which one is right, but I have heard many people say never skip protein, because you need it every 2 hours, and others say: https://www.bodybuilding.com/content/intermittent-fasting-everything-you-need-to-know.html https://www.bodybuilding.com/content/intermittent-fasting-ev...

reitanqild 9y ago

As others have mentioned there seems to be a number of studies about the health benefits of itermittent fasting. (I really love big breakfasts though:-) For me however I do it because I get less tired during the day if I wait until lunch before I eat. (Fasting completely seems to work even better but is less of an option after I got a family that wants me to eat dinner with them.)

reubenswartz 9y ago

I started skipping breakfast a while back after having a big dinner the night before and realizing I wasn't hungry. I felt better than if I ate just because it was "time to eat." Over time, I moved the threshold, and I don't eat breakfast, except for a shot of espresso. It feels much better. Earlier, I had worked to cut out carbs at lunch (because they were making me sleepy in the middle of the afternoon). With breakfast being so simple, I have to make sure I have a healthy lunch (went out to eat and failed today), and then I don't stress too much about dinner. YMMV, but this system has worked really well for me. As for the science, there's a lot of research, but no one really knows how all of our elaborate cellular machinery works. However, there seems to be some notion of the body being in "digestion" or "maintenance/repair" mode. Letting your body get into the latter mode seems to have some really good effects.

reubenswartz 9y ago
Update-- of course, yesterday my wife made amazing oatmeal raisin cookies. I have no need to buy junk at the grocery store, but put a plate of homemade cookies in front of me, and "game over, man".

ThrustVectoring 9y ago

The super brief science is that your nervous system is divided into two opposing parts - the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems. These systems inhibit the other when the one is activated. Programming in particular activates and works better with the sympathetic "flight-or-flight" nervous system, while eating food (particularly heavy meals) will activate the parasympathetic "rest-and-digest" nervous system. Plus, removing unnecessary breaks and decisions in your day can help too.

Tomminn 9y ago

So right now I'm 63 hours into a fast, which I just decided to do on a lark. I've been intrigued ever since hearing an interesting podcast on fasting (https://tim.blog/2017/05/04/smart-drugs-fasting-and-fat-loss/ https://tim.blog/2017/05/04/smart-drugs-fasting-and-fat-loss...). At this stage, I have started to find mental things a little harder to do, but honestly its still pretty subtle and is pretty indistinguishable from the normal kinds of self pity I normally have when I sit down to complete some hard mental task. Physical tasks are obviously a different story. But your mind doesn't seem to slow down much at all for a pretty long time during fasting. I think that's the main thing I'll take away from this experience. Eating does not improve mental performance, at least not unless we're talking about a multiple-day timescale. I now believe that it may slightly degrade it, because your gut gets greedy for your that thought-fuelling blood. This is useful knowledge to have gained because so often I think "ooo, feel a bit dumb, better eat."

drb91 9y ago
> Physical tasks are obviously a different story. But your mind doesn't seem to slow down much at all for a pretty long time during fasting. I’m not sure i agree with this. Highly productive sessions always end with me feeling exhausted despite just concentrating intently for several hours. Doesn’t your brain already consume like 30% of your energy? It would really surprise me if your brain operated at full capacity after 2+ days of no calories.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- Tomminn 9y ago
  The assumption you're making is that your brain gets no calories when you have no food. Every kilogram of fat on your body is 9000 calories just sitting there. Most of us have at least 10 of em, or 90,000 calories. While it's definitely true that some things slow down to conserve energy, it seems like the brain isn't one of em. There are moments* now I feel I'm thinking considerably clearer than usual. The world just feels unbelievably quiet. And things are getting done. *I don't want to sell it as if it's all sunshine and rainbows. So far, getting to sleep has been hell, and the hunger pangs at times have been pretty insistent. While the hunger seems to have gone now, I have a general feeling of physical frailty, including lightheadedness when I stand up, and occasional light nausea.

mandrake-c-papi 9y ago

As a fellow endurance athlete who has experimented with fasting I would say don't waste your time. While I do think the response to fasting is somewhat personal, for me the impact upon long-term fitness, work/life stress (cortisol) [1] and ongoing metabolism [2] is just too severe to be ignored. [1] https://www.precisionnutrition.com/all-about-cortisol https://www.precisionnutrition.com/all-about-cortisol [2] https://www.outsideonline.com/2284636/scientific-case-big-breakfast https://www.outsideonline.com/2284636/scientific-case-big-br...

wastedhours 9y ago

If you're fasting to lose weight, then you're probably also calorie restricting at those other meals anyway, and so eating later in the day and taking the "food coma" into the afternoon is better for productivity than in the morning (for me). I went through a phase of only eating lunch at 12pm - so I'd be fasting for nearly 24 hours daily (of course, tied alongside severe calorie restriction meant I was losing weight at an unhealthy rate). Whilst probably horrendous for me long-term, and raising quite a few questions about my general health, I felt fantastic doing that. Some days I even felt like just randomly running along the pavement I had that much energy. So, there might be some science behind it, honestly not sure - but that anecdata does make it a compelling thing to try.

eddieroger 9y ago

I am not an endurance athlete, and I wouldn't even consider myself a health nut, but I know that i wake up hungry, and if I don't eat something (usually a fruit and greens smoothie with protein power and almond milk), I get too hungry to focus on work. I've also noticed that since I got more rigorous about eating (drinking) breakfast, I don't get as hungry late at night. It's almost, anecdotally, like my body know it can expect fuel in the morning and doesn't spend the evening stockpiling.

adamzk 9y ago

I've also heard a convincing argument that there's an evolutionary response to prolonged hunger akin to fight or flight response that enhances cognition to better enable us to find food.