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I appreciate the sentiment, but trust me: if there's a "solution" out there, I've tried it (Yes, I have in fact heard of melatonin! No, it doesn't help, thank y

by Puer 9y ago

I appreciate the sentiment, but trust me: if there's a "solution" out there, I've tried it (Yes, I have in fact heard of melatonin! No, it doesn't help, thank you.) My chronic insomnia is "primary" meaning it persists in the absence of other factors. I'm not depressed. I get enough sun exposure. I take my supplements. I have a comfy mattress. I practice good sleep hygiene. I use blue light filters and don't use my phone/computer before bed. I exercise every day. I eat well and not before bed. I don't have breathing issues. Nothing helps. It's just the hand I was dealt genetically. Furthermore, exercising to the point of exhaustion is reckless and I've injured myself over the years doing exactly that because I don't get enough sleep for my body to recover properly. I can run and stay aerobically fit and I played high level soccer for many years when I was younger without too much issue, but activities like weightlifting are a struggle for me. Benchlifting when you're sleep deprived is pointless so I have to fill in on my off days.

ASalazarMX 9y ago
What do you think about sleeping pills?
- Puer 9y ago
  They're more of a bandage than a solution. Any "true" sleeping pill has to be tapered, so at best you can only take them for a few months at a time before they become ineffective due to tolerance. In my experience, they're also inconsistent and I would still experience a sleepness night about once a week. These are in addition to the usual side effects (oversleeping, daytime grogginess, memory issues, mood issues, etc.) that make long-term use impractical.
  - ASalazarMX 9y ago
    You're right. They are supposed to get you used to a sleep schedule, not to force you to sleep every night. They can't be used forever. As someone else already suggested, meditation might be worth trying. Some people find it harder to calm their thoughts, but those are usually the most benefited.
  - srean 9y ago
    In addition to all that I don't think there are non-addictive pills that increases non-REM sleep. That's the most rest full phase of sleep. I would be so happy to be wrong. Sleeping pills gave me the feeling of being notionally asleep but actually conscious and awake underneath. Lot of REM sleep but hardly any of the non REM variety. That's why I gave them up very quickly. They only made a bad situation worse for me.
wellboy 9y ago
Meditation?
- Puer 9y ago
  I admit I might sound a bit bitter in these comments, but mentally I think I'm healthier and stronger than I've ever been. I used to struggle with depression and anxiety when I was younger so I learned mental strategies to pull myself out of unproductive states of mind. I don't feel anxious or frustrated when I can't sleep. I'm too used to it by now to let it bother me anymore.
  - wellboy 9y ago
    Ah I wasn't referring to improving your mental health with meditation. Meditation is more for calming the subconcious, dropping all the background threads that are running. Maybe that's a "hack" that can fix your problem. Even if it doesn't, meditating a few hours at night gives your body more rest than rolling around and not getting rest nor sleep. Maybe 4h of meditation at night is like 3h of real sleep for you, who knows. Furthermore, you get a lot of insights and a better connection to your body. I can recommend the app headspace.
trendia 9y ago
Have you tried "Algorithmic Sleep Solution" [0]? This type of intentional sleep restriction worked for me. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15997016 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15997016
slfnflctd 9y ago
As of this writing there are at least 3 other replies peppering you with suggestions you've almost certainly already known about & tried without success. I'm not going to suggest anything. I feel bad for you, and just wanted to say so. I'm fairly convinced I would be either homeless or dead if I couldn't get enough sleep, and the fact that you at least aren't the latter is inspiring to me. Your life seems impossibly difficult to me, and so I wish you all the best success in regularly finding a tranquil oasis to bide your time in along your way.
- dbingham 9y ago
  Yeah, I just want to echo this. As a periodic insomniac, I cannot imagine having your struggles with it. My own are bad enough. I've done the whole "month with out sleeping" thing. It was hell. Being in that state where nothing feels like it helps is terrifying and frustrating. I cannot imagine having that my whole life and never being able to break out of it. I feel very, very lucky that meditation, sleep hygiene, and melatonin now help me keep mine reasonably in check. I'm sorry you got dealt that hand, it sounds like you're dealing with it far better than the vast majority of people would - including me.
- Puer 9y ago
  Thank you.

by Puer 9y ago

ASalazarMX 9y ago

What do you think about sleeping pills?

Puer 9y ago
They're more of a bandage than a solution. Any "true" sleeping pill has to be tapered, so at best you can only take them for a few months at a time before they become ineffective due to tolerance. In my experience, they're also inconsistent and I would still experience a sleepness night about once a week. These are in addition to the usual side effects (oversleeping, daytime grogginess, memory issues, mood issues, etc.) that make long-term use impractical.
- ASalazarMX 9y ago
  You're right. They are supposed to get you used to a sleep schedule, not to force you to sleep every night. They can't be used forever. As someone else already suggested, meditation might be worth trying. Some people find it harder to calm their thoughts, but those are usually the most benefited.
- srean 9y ago
  In addition to all that I don't think there are non-addictive pills that increases non-REM sleep. That's the most rest full phase of sleep. I would be so happy to be wrong. Sleeping pills gave me the feeling of being notionally asleep but actually conscious and awake underneath. Lot of REM sleep but hardly any of the non REM variety. That's why I gave them up very quickly. They only made a bad situation worse for me.

wellboy 9y ago

Meditation?

Puer 9y ago
I admit I might sound a bit bitter in these comments, but mentally I think I'm healthier and stronger than I've ever been. I used to struggle with depression and anxiety when I was younger so I learned mental strategies to pull myself out of unproductive states of mind. I don't feel anxious or frustrated when I can't sleep. I'm too used to it by now to let it bother me anymore.
- wellboy 9y ago
  Ah I wasn't referring to improving your mental health with meditation. Meditation is more for calming the subconcious, dropping all the background threads that are running. Maybe that's a "hack" that can fix your problem. Even if it doesn't, meditating a few hours at night gives your body more rest than rolling around and not getting rest nor sleep. Maybe 4h of meditation at night is like 3h of real sleep for you, who knows. Furthermore, you get a lot of insights and a better connection to your body. I can recommend the app headspace.

trendia 9y ago

Have you tried "Algorithmic Sleep Solution" [0]? This type of intentional sleep restriction worked for me. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15997016 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15997016

slfnflctd 9y ago

As of this writing there are at least 3 other replies peppering you with suggestions you've almost certainly already known about & tried without success. I'm not going to suggest anything. I feel bad for you, and just wanted to say so. I'm fairly convinced I would be either homeless or dead if I couldn't get enough sleep, and the fact that you at least aren't the latter is inspiring to me. Your life seems impossibly difficult to me, and so I wish you all the best success in regularly finding a tranquil oasis to bide your time in along your way.

dbingham 9y ago
Yeah, I just want to echo this. As a periodic insomniac, I cannot imagine having your struggles with it. My own are bad enough. I've done the whole "month with out sleeping" thing. It was hell. Being in that state where nothing feels like it helps is terrifying and frustrating. I cannot imagine having that my whole life and never being able to break out of it. I feel very, very lucky that meditation, sleep hygiene, and melatonin now help me keep mine reasonably in check. I'm sorry you got dealt that hand, it sounds like you're dealing with it far better than the vast majority of people would - including me.
Puer 9y ago
Thank you.