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iOS 11.3 update breaks iPhone 8 devices with third party-repaired screens
- 0x0 9y agoHard to know if this was done on purpose, or if the third party replacement parts are actually substandard/not-to-spec and therefore naturally not QA'd at Apple.... at least until a technical root cause is found?
- throwaway2048 9y agothe issue is apple refuses to provide third party repairs with parts, or even specifications for parts, so its a bit of a roundabout arguement that is tantamount to saying "only apple should repair them" to blame them as they have no alternative.
- axoltl 9y agoThat's not true. https://support.apple.com/en-lamr/aasp-program https://support.apple.com/en-lamr/aasp-program
- throwaway2048 9y agoThis isnt the sale of parts to people that wish to buy them, its a very stringent certification program that very few are going to meet the requirements for, and requires you do things like "Actively promote the Apple brand as part of their business along with AppleCare service and support products." "Service Providers are required to use Apple Certified Macintosh Technicians when conducting diagnostics, Covered Repairs, modifications, alterations and upgrades on Apple products." " Individuals or sole traders may not apply." Imagine these kind of restrictions being placed on car repairshops before they were allowed to buy and use replacement parts from manufacterers, there would be a massive lawsuit.
- axoltl 9y agoYou mentioned "third party repairs". Even Louis Rossmann has his reservations about selling to individuals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaR593TrXf8&t=493s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaR593TrXf8&t=493s Plus, for TouchID enabled phones you MUST have a special rig in order to re-pair the sensor, and for FaceID you have to have a special rig to re-calibrate the sensor stack every time you open the device!
- drewg123 9y agoTesla has restrictions that are similar. Many parts are "restricted" at Tesla will not sell them unless you're a Tesla owner, or certified body shop. I'm not even sure they have any certified general repair shops.
- entropicdrifter 9y agoIt's probably their workaround for the fact that it's illegal to actually ban users from seeking third party repairs, even in a warranty.
- mirekrusin 9y agoMaybe, but maybe it's the only way they can fight problems like "replacing broken/not-broken screen at 3rd party disables fingerprint based security".
- djrogers 9y agoCompletely untrue - if you go to Apple's own support site to schedule a repair, multiple 3rd party options are given, all of whom can acquire first-party parts from Apple.
- spacehome 9y agoIf it's anything like what happened last year to the iPhone 7s it's a security issue relating to detecting a non-authentic TouchID button. It may really be a mistake, as Apple may not have a third-party screen at all to test updates with.
- bluedino 9y agoReplacement iPhone screens are of dubious quality. I had my 6S screen replaced, the first one I couldn't see with my sunglasses on and the second one the touch screen was very erratic, and the one I have now has terrible light bleed at the top.
- astockwell 9y agoApple, I get it. I get why you do it. But seriously, this retroactive punishing of prior 3rd-party purchases is asinine. I had purchased multiple lightning cables from Anker (a very reputable brand), and had one of the iOS 11.x updates basically render them useless. Apple's product support is not fast enough, nor pervasive enough (to say nothing of cheap enough), to justify this behavior. Edited for clarity
- axoltl 9y agoIt was not done intentionally. They simply don't QA their releases on repaired phones (because why would they?). The touchscreens in question highly likely use an older touchscreen controller from a previous iPhone. These controllers don't support certain commands that evidently they are now using. As far as the lightning connectors go, that WAS done intentionally. The third party lightning connectors generally don't implement a very specific charging protocol designed to prevent metal migration between the pins and the pads on the connector. They only implement the handshake. But guess who has to honor the warranty if you've used a non-compliant charger cable?
- jandrese 9y agoIs this why some lightning cables seem to have one scorched pin on the connector? I have some that only work one way now.
- astockwell 9y agoThe irony is all of mine that have the scorched pin are Apple's...
- DINKDINK 9y ago>(because why would they?) Because a company understands their product in the field and cares about what effect a change might have. Now is that cost justified? arguably no.
- axoltl 9y ago
- curiousgal 9y agoI don't get it. You paid a full amount for that device. You can do whatever you want with it. These tactics are ridiculous.
- grecy 9y agoHmmmm. Step 1: Buy new car Step 2: Replace engine with something other than OEM. Step 3: Complain when car's ECU does not run engine.
- ryandrake 9y agoThis seems closer to: 1. But new car 2. Replace broken windshield with something other than OEM 3. Complain when car refuses to start because its computer detected a non OEM windshield.
- snowwrestler 9y agoMost car windshields don't have sensors, microprocessors, driver code, etc.
- TYPE_FASTER 9y agoI had my rain sensing windshield replaced. The insurance company refused to replace with an OEM windshield. The windshield company said it would be fine. It was not fine. Rain sensing didn't work again for the rest of the time I owned the car.
- r00fus 9y agoSounds like you should reopen the case with the insurance company. Are they allowed to substitute a non-performing part just because it's cheaper?
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
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- Proven 9y ago“It seemed like a good idea... at the time”
- draw_down 9y agoI guess we all forget about Hanlon's razor when dealing with Apple, not that I find this at all surprising
- cpeterso 9y agoI replaced my iPhone screen (at a Staples office supply store) and the new screen was polarized such that it was dark when viewed (in portrait orientation) through my polarized sunglasses. Very frustrating that I had to either look over my sunglasses or rotate the phone to use it. Apple's screens appear to have some slight polarization but it is cleverly at a diagonal to both portrait and landscape orientation. Details matter.
- r00fus 9y agoApple added circular polarization display tech way back in iPhone5 or 6 I think. I used to notice this in my iPhone4S when I had my polarized lenses on. https://appleinsider.com/articles/11/05/26/apple_exploring_improved_outdoor_lcd_viewing_with_sunglasses_friendly_screens https://appleinsider.com/articles/11/05/26/apple_exploring_i...
- tajen 9y agoI had a Samsung A5: It was polarized-dark under sunglasses like you say. I just thought Apple was an improvement.
- no_wizard 9y agoAll the more reason to support the right to repair https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2018/3/8/17097256/california-right-to-repair-bill-apple-microsoft-service-replace-parts https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2018/3/8/17097256/cali...
- cheeze 9y agoOh man, someone advocating for right to repair but linking an AMP article on HN? Surely this will lead to some fun discussion
- calebegg 9y agoThe amp version of this page takes my browser 1.39 seconds to load with about 616KB of data over 27 requests. The non-AMP version takes over 10 seconds, and loads 2.2 MB over 300+ requests. In this case, it's just a light version of the article with the same content. That seems objectively better. If AMP wasn't incidentally in the URL path you wouldn't have noticed it was AMP. If the existence of AMP encourages people to write faster, less cruft-y pages, that's a good thing to me.
- cheeze 9y agoI have zero issue with it, but HN is super outspoken about how AMP is the worst thing on the internet.
- kup0 9y agoI understand this thread has really gotten off topic from the original, but I think it's a good discussion nevertheless. I think the criticisms we often hear about AMP tend to be more principle-based/philosophical in nature. Yes, the overall user experience is better. It's not that the experience is bad, it's more about the means they're using to reach those ends. I see AMP as a set of training wheels that Google was able to get publishers to adopt. All the tools were available for publishers and their developers to make performant/clean sites to begin with, they just chose not to do so. AMP is basically a standardized form of "the way they should have built their site in the first place". My other issue with AMP is that it makes companies focus on performance for mobile, but not for desktop. Why not build a quality, high-performance site for all platforms? At the end of the day, is AMP a net positive? Maybe, I'm willing to consider the end result, but I don't think it's a problem for us to explore and criticize the means or the reality that necessitated AMP's existence.
- apple314 9y agoYou know, this would be far less of an issue if Apple offered some way of downgrading iOS...
- wbkang 9y agoI thought you can do that with iTunes if you just get the signed old ipsw file. I remember reverting from iOS 11 to 10 this way
- JustSomeNobody 9y agoSimilar issue with the 6S happened when ios 11 was released. In that case Apple DID allow people to downgrade (back to 10.3.3 in fact!). I don't have a third party screen, but I did take advantage of that and tried ios 11 for a while. Eventually went back to 10.3.3 before that window closed (they fixed the issue with 3rd party screens on 6S).
- opencl 9y agoThis seems like a potential violation of the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act, which prohibits the refusal of warranty service for using third-party parts without proving that the third-party parts were the source of the malfunction. Assuming Apple will refuse to repair these under warranty, which they almost certainly will, this is effectively requiring the purchase of screens from Apple to receive warranty service. On the other hand it's somewhat debatable whether the screens or the OS update are responsible for the problem, but the screens were clearly working fine before the update.
- Nicksil 9y agoNon-AMP link: https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/8/17097256/california-right-to-repair-bill-apple-microsoft-service-replace-parts https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/8/17097256/california-right-...
- rlanday 9y agoGiven that iPhones with OEM displays are apparently still working fine...isn't it pretty obvious that the third-party parts are the source of the malfunction?
- opencl 9y agoThere is zero evidence so far as to whether this is intentional sabotage of third party parts or not. However Apple has already demonstrated that they are able and willing to do this kind of thing i.e. with non-certified Lightning cables that also previously worked perfectly fine. If there is a bit of code in the OS update along the lines of if(DisplayID != GenuineApple) { breakPhone(); } then it's obviously Apple's fault. But it's not at all clear yet exactly what's causing this problem and whether or not it was intentional on Apple's part.
- tambourine_man 9y agoDo we know if it was intentional? Otherwise a better title would be “Some third party repaired screen fail to work on 11.3”
- umpc 9y agoWhy would Apple test every 3rd-party compatible screen? If they don’t test, components will break. If they don’t change APIs, components won’t be able to improve sufficiently. In this case, there are only two actual solutions from Apple’s perspective, and they’re both ‘bad’ for customers: Restrict users of 3rd-party screens from upgrading their devices, even when breakage may not occur, or, let them update and take the risk. Technical debt, likely caused by time-pressure before releases, is expensive when it can’t be left behind. Apple also doesn’t have to support much 3rd party hardware because their phones are the only built to run iOS. I would imagine that Google’s processes are better equipped to support more hardware and for longer durations.
- dmitrygr 9y agoThis could have been entirely innocent. It happened to an android device I am familiar with as well. Third-party screens will usually identify over i2c/spi/whatever the same as original, but you cannot apply original firmware updates to them (they are different internally and will get bricked). However, as they are designed to appear original, there isn't always a way to tell. The two options both suck: do not ship firmware updates (bad) or ship them and risk damage non-original screens (marginally less bad). The choice in the case I know of was made to not ship update (it was minor). Apple chose otherwise.
- bdamm 9y agoTwo other options also exist. OS performs a handshake with the target subcomponent and authenticates that the component really is manufactured by the manufacturer that is targeted by the pending firmware update. If the authentication completes successfully, then push the firmware. A flip-side alternative is for the component to only boot firmware that it recognizes as signed by the correct authority. In the first case the device has an embedded identity within the hardware. In the second case the device merely needs to validate a signature. Crypto acceleration is becoming very widespread and very cheap so I don't see either of these as difficult to manufacture.
- greglindahl 9y agoYour first suggestion is what is being done. The parts are pretending to be authentic. This game has been played for decades in various kinds of high-volume computing parts without a good solution.
- axoltl 9y agoYou've obviously never been involved in the design/manufacture of an ASIC. What you're proposing will take roughly 2 years, and be an organizational nightmare. 'Just' having an embedded identity is already complicated: 1. Where do you store the identity? Fuses in the ASIC? Now you need a fuse bank. Not every process node supports fuses, so you may now have to port you entire design to a new process node. 2. Using this new-fangled identity means you can now perform a handshake with the host. Let's 'just' put down an ECDSA accelerator. What do you mean, this increases the die size by 33%? What do you mean it needs to be resistant to differential power analysis? Oh, right, because stealing a single identity means you can make as many clones as you'd like, and we can't revoke identities if we think they're stolen because of laws in China! Etc. etc. the second option doesn't even work because the cloned device will simply ignore the signature on the firmware. I used to think this was all trivial too, but having been through this _exact_ wringer 4 or 5 times before I can tell you it is Hard(tm).
- wintorez 9y agoApple is punishing the iPhone owners, and I think it's unfair to punish them while they are being punished by owning an iPhone.
- a-the-ist 9y agoiPhone 6S on 11.3. I just replaced the rear camera assembly and the front camera+light sensor+earphone assembly with third-party parts (on a moving train, I might brag). Everything works except the auto-brightness setting disappeared. I did Erase Settings and it's still gone. I'm wondering if: - I didn't place the light sensor correctly - I touched it/ruined it - the part is defective - Erase All Content & Settings options is absolutely necessary
- axoltl 9y agoIt does sound like your ALS (Ambient Light Sensor) isn't connected correctly. I'd suggest reseating all the little connectors!
- tinus_hn 9y agoIn my opinion Apple should be forced to provide original spare parts to any repair shops that wants them, and for a reasonable price.