6 ms·

There's a plenty of occasions, causes and distractions to make your mind wander. To me personally the most prominent ones are when reading a book (which is also

There's a plenty of occasions, causes and distractions to make your mind wander. To me personally the most prominent ones are when reading a book (which is also the most infuriating) and while riding some sort of public transport. The latter one helps me to reduce head buzz which is generated by randomly reading HN posts or working on a demanding task. Reading a book, where I actually need to concentrate on the book, some contents generate occasional mind branches. That means, I continue reading, but I think about something else triggered by what's in the book. Then I switch back to the book realizing "Wait, where was I? I have no idea why I'm reading this, and now I skipped a whole page." When I make a long trip I also have a lot of time to think. So, my scope of thoughts grows and my mind wanders. Basically that's the mode which potentially might make me very happy or deeply unhappy. Because the scope expands from decisions made in the past to decisions to make in the future. And that's where it hurts most. Can anyone relate?

acorkery 9y ago
I can relate with the reading issue. I've occasionally read 2 pages of a book while thinking of something else entirely, then realise I didn't absorb any of what I read. Not just tuning in and out - nothing.. I also can't skim text - need to almost pronounce all the phrases in my head, which is a pain when reading long books. I do read a lot, and have no literacy or comprehension issues - just seems like there's interference somewhere..
- dschuetz 9y ago
  Skimming text doesn't work the same for everyone. The eyes literally scan a page for (basically random) nouns, buzzwords, verbs etc to kinda guess the content, regarding the context. The associative power of the brain (which is different in every person) fills in the gaps and usually guesses everything correctly. But when there is a context switch in between... well, the wrong guess can turn out catastrophically bad. I think, when my mind wanders off while still reading that means I got "bored" with the text by already knowing what's going to happen and I switch to associative thoughts instead. That's a problem for people who think highly associative instead of sequential. They need to apply or follow sequential logic actively instead of just doing it automatically, and that occasionally bores the hell of them, or exhaust them, because often they just know how things are. Hence the wandering mind in this case is a different one compared to the cases in the article.
  - acorkery 9y ago
    > I think, when my mind wanders off while still reading that means I got "bored" with the text by already knowing what's going to happen and I switch to associative thoughts instead. Notice any difference between how your brain "behaves" reading fiction and non-fiction/academic works - e.g. reading for enjoyment vs reading argumentative discourse. For fiction, do you also find yourself guessing at the content or wandering off?
    - dschuetz 9y ago
      Fiction in most cases uses descriptive language, with a lot of cues for imagination to kick in. It's something different compared to reading scientific articles in journals. In such article you need to follow the logical reasoning and decision-making, considering other possibilities and outcomes (especially when reading the problem analysis and conclusion parts). Both cases have similar pattern in terms of wandering off for me, but they are not quite the same. Reading for joy means enjoying the products of your own imagination, but sometimes it shoots over the line, I guess. Reading for work is more tedious, because its not for fun, hence the guessing distraction, like "yeah, I get it, but what about this and that?" Having understood the problem, reading the solutions then seems kinda obvious. There is a difference, but both follow the same pattern, so: yeah.
    - dschuetz 9y ago
      As I learned, my habit of kinda omitting the obvious and wander off to the non-obvious relations behind it all the time seems to be rare. I've never met another person who does that.
- Dowwie 9y ago
  I don't regret not being able to finish a book when I go off into deep branches of thought, provoked by ideas from a book. It's not an issue unless I really need to read something and focus. While I may not finish a book, I've gotten so much from the experience of reading it. The experience is gratifying and worthwhile because of the creativity a book can spark. A good book is a catalyst for the creative mind.
- dvtv75 9y ago
  This sounds quite similar to my experience. I have a Non-Verbal Learning Disorder, and if I don't sub-vocalize everything, I end up with no idea of what I've just read. Often, I end up with my mind wandering in the same way and I'll have to go back and re-read everything I'd just read. While individual sentences and phrases will seem irritatingly familiar, I still have no idea of what I've read until I re-read it. I'll sometimes find myself unable to grasp what I'm reading as if I were daydreaming while reading it, and I have to read it four or five times before I can get a clue about the material. It's easier if I break it down into the smallest fragments I can, and really force myself to understand those little bits, proceeding through it until I've stitched together a few of these into a larger concept. Rinse, repeat.
  - acorkery 9y ago
    That's interesting. I suppose the written word is just a visual representation that needs to be parsed, natural that there could be thought processes that overlap and conflict with that process. The only similar experience I have is when I'm learning a new tune on the piano - when following the sheet music my mind keeps jumping ahead and trying to work out where the song is going (and also analyzing how I'm playing), whereas working out the tune and playing "by ear" is much quicker for me and doesn't cause any concentration issues. It's a pretty mild and perfectly manageable thing for me though, I can generally force myself to comply, but it takes effort!
    - dvtv75 9y ago
      I (sort-of) play bass, and when I learn a song from tab, I'm pretty much just wrote learning. I'm sort-of learning to read musical notation, but I don't really have a visual memory which makes it really hard. It would certainly be a lot easier if I had a lot more knowledge of musical theory. Playing by ear is much harder for me because I know just a few scales, and I can't hold a note in my head long enough to find it on the fretboard. Knowing the scales would make everything a subconscious pattern. Mind you, I am starting to think that's entirely an anxiety thing.
  - snarfy 9y ago
    You might have success curbing excessive daydreaming with a nootropic like modafinil or even something like ritalin. Some vitamins help too like choline. Also, audio books.
chrlsdrnt 9y ago
It depends on what I’m reading. If I’m reading a book I enjoy, I absorb the pages as if a movie is playing in my mind. I don’t see the words, only the images of however my imagination creates it. If I’m reading something technical or work related, I can’t concentrate because my mind is unable to bridge that gap between the text and my imagination. I find myself bored within moments and I skim the text looking for keywords that are relative to the problem I’m trying to solve.
Regardsyjc 9y ago
I could be wrong but your mind wandering off on a tangent while you're reading might be a sign of creativity. Creativity could be when you find relationships between two things that might not have been initially connected in your head. Your mind wandering could be your brain literally making new connections between the new material you're reading and existing material in your brain. Also, I think comparing and contrasting information is a way of learning. I'm basing this from a book I read, A Mind for Numbers, and they have a chapter that explains how the brain works and thus how people learn.
- trentmb 9y ago
  I assure you I am not creative.
  - CodeCube 9y ago
    Cut yourself a little slack ... I'm sure you _are_ creative, but perhaps have never _directed_ it towards any particular goal. If you've got the time, I highly recommended this talk by John Cleese on Creativity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb5oIIPO62g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb5oIIPO62g
- dschuetz 9y ago
  Being such an annoying/intense associative thinker that I am, then I must be some super creative genius, and don't know it yet? Unlikely, so I doubt that it's true.
Dowwie 9y ago
Yes, I can relate-- deeply. Are we a unique archetype? Maybe.
majos 9y ago
Yup. I find it helpful to use a scrap of paper as a bookmark and write down the page numbers of excerpts that strike me. Then when I'm done I go back and type the excerpts up into a big Google doc I keep for this purpose along with a paragraph or two of my thoughts on the book. Usually the quotes trigger the tangential ideas I had while reading and I can synthesize them into something useful. I'm happy I found this technique. I think it's significantly upped the utility I get from books, since I can go back and remember what hit me about them.
- mk4p 9y ago
  When you say "synthesize them into something useful", what do you mean? What's something useful that's resulted from this habit?
  - majos 9y ago
    "Something useful" here refers to an opinion on what the book in question is "about", or an interesting lesson I drew from it, or a coherent reason why I might recommend it to somebody else. Here, for example, is what I wrote down for A House For Mr Biswas: > Finished yesterday, and found this primarily a story about a man who never really knows himself, and as a result can never quite situate other people in relation to himself. Fits and starts of self-improvement, a sense of life about to begin that persists for far too long, shifting roles played according to setting, a series of humiliations for which books offer some kind of solace and hope for betterment -- yikes. Like Proust, Naipaul seems to like unpacking the (nonobvious, often directly contradicting the obvious) motivations behind actions, and like The God of Small Things, the picture that emerges is one in which nobody is all that good, though it mercifully lacks its clockwork-mechanism-of-misery aspect I generally find that books leave me with ideas and sensations that tend to just dissipate if I don't write them down. This is a way of combating that.
eksemplar 9y ago
I can relate. Extremely annoying when it happens on texts that are need to read, more acceptable when it’s leisure and I can always go back later. It also happens when I listen to audiobooks. Sometimes I pause these or swap to music if the wandering is too bad.
rootbear 9y ago
Boy, can I relate. This happens to me all the time, especially when reading science fiction and the author drops some really interesting new idea in my head. I've had to reread a whole page because I kept reading on inertia while my mind absorbed the cool new idea.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
hyperpallium 9y ago
Yes, somehow the reading mind reads, but no one's listening. However, for me it often triggers a new idea. I think the problem is not the wandering itself, but self-focus of the wandering. Great eureka moments come from wandering, but they are about external, objective questions. John Stuart Mill (the utilitarianism guy) developed an "anti-self-consciousness theory" and overcame his depression/ennui. "Ask yourself whether you are happy, and you cease to be so. The only chance is to treat, not happiness, but some end external to it as the purpose of life. Let your self-consciousness, your scrutiny, your self-interrogation exhaust themselves on that." --- http://theliterarylink.com/anti_selfconsciousness.html http://theliterarylink.com/anti_selfconsciousness.html https://books.google.com.au/books?id=nSprYzk7q40C&pg=PA180&lpg=PA180&dq=anti+self+consciousness+theory+quote+exhaust https://books.google.com.au/books?id=nSprYzk7q40C&pg=PA180&l...
jknoepfler 9y ago
I take road trips alone occasionally to have very long, uninterrupted periods to allow my mind to wander. I've always felt that it was very valuable, whether I was dwelling on an exciting new idea, something deeply upsetting, or something completely nonsensical. I don't think of the associated depression, loneliness and boredom as being good or bad, they are simply part of a rich mental life. I am often frustrated by difficulty concentrating, though, and frequently have invasive thoughts as you describe. The things that have helped me most with those are eliminating caffeine, meditating regularly (particularly compassion meditation, peculiarly), and exercise. But yes, I can relate! I'm very grateful for having a mind that wanders, despite the irritation (it's not unlike caring for a small child I think)
npsimons 9y ago
> That means, I continue reading, but I think about something else triggered by what's in the book. Then I switch back to the book realizing "Wait, where was I? I have no idea why I'm reading this, and now I skipped a whole page." Solve this with a "catch": something you use to empty the distracting ideas from your head, then get back to what you're doing. The original suggestion for a catch I found in "Mind Performance Hacks" by Ron Hale-Evans was a piece of paper and a writing utensil. These days with all sorts of apps to "catch" ideas, you have plenty of options. I've become very comfortable with org-mode myself.
jcmoscon 9y ago
You should read "How to read a book" book from Mortimer Adler. If you read a book asking questions about why did the author said that? is it true? so what? Your mind will stop wondering around and you will be actively searching for the answers. That's a good book and everybody should read it.
lilbobbytables 9y ago
Yep, books have typically been a poor way to learn for me, unless they're really good (by the metric of keeping me engaged). It has always been a frustrating thing.
simonebrunozzi 9y ago
> Reading a book, where I actually need to concentrate on the book, some contents generate occasional mind branches. That means, I continue reading, but I think about something else triggered by what's in the book. Then I switch back to the book realizing "Wait, where was I? I have no idea why I'm reading this, and now I skipped a whole page." I completely relate to this.

acorkery 9y ago

I can relate with the reading issue. I've occasionally read 2 pages of a book while thinking of something else entirely, then realise I didn't absorb any of what I read. Not just tuning in and out - nothing.. I also can't skim text - need to almost pronounce all the phrases in my head, which is a pain when reading long books. I do read a lot, and have no literacy or comprehension issues - just seems like there's interference somewhere..

dschuetz 9y ago
Skimming text doesn't work the same for everyone. The eyes literally scan a page for (basically random) nouns, buzzwords, verbs etc to kinda guess the content, regarding the context. The associative power of the brain (which is different in every person) fills in the gaps and usually guesses everything correctly. But when there is a context switch in between... well, the wrong guess can turn out catastrophically bad. I think, when my mind wanders off while still reading that means I got "bored" with the text by already knowing what's going to happen and I switch to associative thoughts instead. That's a problem for people who think highly associative instead of sequential. They need to apply or follow sequential logic actively instead of just doing it automatically, and that occasionally bores the hell of them, or exhaust them, because often they just know how things are. Hence the wandering mind in this case is a different one compared to the cases in the article.
- acorkery 9y ago
  > I think, when my mind wanders off while still reading that means I got "bored" with the text by already knowing what's going to happen and I switch to associative thoughts instead. Notice any difference between how your brain "behaves" reading fiction and non-fiction/academic works - e.g. reading for enjoyment vs reading argumentative discourse. For fiction, do you also find yourself guessing at the content or wandering off?
  - dschuetz 9y ago
    Fiction in most cases uses descriptive language, with a lot of cues for imagination to kick in. It's something different compared to reading scientific articles in journals. In such article you need to follow the logical reasoning and decision-making, considering other possibilities and outcomes (especially when reading the problem analysis and conclusion parts). Both cases have similar pattern in terms of wandering off for me, but they are not quite the same. Reading for joy means enjoying the products of your own imagination, but sometimes it shoots over the line, I guess. Reading for work is more tedious, because its not for fun, hence the guessing distraction, like "yeah, I get it, but what about this and that?" Having understood the problem, reading the solutions then seems kinda obvious. There is a difference, but both follow the same pattern, so: yeah.
  - dschuetz 9y ago
    As I learned, my habit of kinda omitting the obvious and wander off to the non-obvious relations behind it all the time seems to be rare. I've never met another person who does that.
Dowwie 9y ago
I don't regret not being able to finish a book when I go off into deep branches of thought, provoked by ideas from a book. It's not an issue unless I really need to read something and focus. While I may not finish a book, I've gotten so much from the experience of reading it. The experience is gratifying and worthwhile because of the creativity a book can spark. A good book is a catalyst for the creative mind.
dvtv75 9y ago
This sounds quite similar to my experience. I have a Non-Verbal Learning Disorder, and if I don't sub-vocalize everything, I end up with no idea of what I've just read. Often, I end up with my mind wandering in the same way and I'll have to go back and re-read everything I'd just read. While individual sentences and phrases will seem irritatingly familiar, I still have no idea of what I've read until I re-read it. I'll sometimes find myself unable to grasp what I'm reading as if I were daydreaming while reading it, and I have to read it four or five times before I can get a clue about the material. It's easier if I break it down into the smallest fragments I can, and really force myself to understand those little bits, proceeding through it until I've stitched together a few of these into a larger concept. Rinse, repeat.
- acorkery 9y ago
  That's interesting. I suppose the written word is just a visual representation that needs to be parsed, natural that there could be thought processes that overlap and conflict with that process. The only similar experience I have is when I'm learning a new tune on the piano - when following the sheet music my mind keeps jumping ahead and trying to work out where the song is going (and also analyzing how I'm playing), whereas working out the tune and playing "by ear" is much quicker for me and doesn't cause any concentration issues. It's a pretty mild and perfectly manageable thing for me though, I can generally force myself to comply, but it takes effort!
  - dvtv75 9y ago
    I (sort-of) play bass, and when I learn a song from tab, I'm pretty much just wrote learning. I'm sort-of learning to read musical notation, but I don't really have a visual memory which makes it really hard. It would certainly be a lot easier if I had a lot more knowledge of musical theory. Playing by ear is much harder for me because I know just a few scales, and I can't hold a note in my head long enough to find it on the fretboard. Knowing the scales would make everything a subconscious pattern. Mind you, I am starting to think that's entirely an anxiety thing.
- snarfy 9y ago
  You might have success curbing excessive daydreaming with a nootropic like modafinil or even something like ritalin. Some vitamins help too like choline. Also, audio books.

chrlsdrnt 9y ago

It depends on what I’m reading. If I’m reading a book I enjoy, I absorb the pages as if a movie is playing in my mind. I don’t see the words, only the images of however my imagination creates it. If I’m reading something technical or work related, I can’t concentrate because my mind is unable to bridge that gap between the text and my imagination. I find myself bored within moments and I skim the text looking for keywords that are relative to the problem I’m trying to solve.

Regardsyjc 9y ago

I could be wrong but your mind wandering off on a tangent while you're reading might be a sign of creativity. Creativity could be when you find relationships between two things that might not have been initially connected in your head. Your mind wandering could be your brain literally making new connections between the new material you're reading and existing material in your brain. Also, I think comparing and contrasting information is a way of learning. I'm basing this from a book I read, A Mind for Numbers, and they have a chapter that explains how the brain works and thus how people learn.

trentmb 9y ago
I assure you I am not creative.
- CodeCube 9y ago
  Cut yourself a little slack ... I'm sure you _are_ creative, but perhaps have never _directed_ it towards any particular goal. If you've got the time, I highly recommended this talk by John Cleese on Creativity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb5oIIPO62g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb5oIIPO62g
dschuetz 9y ago
Being such an annoying/intense associative thinker that I am, then I must be some super creative genius, and don't know it yet? Unlikely, so I doubt that it's true.

Dowwie 9y ago

Yes, I can relate-- deeply. Are we a unique archetype? Maybe.

majos 9y ago

Yup. I find it helpful to use a scrap of paper as a bookmark and write down the page numbers of excerpts that strike me. Then when I'm done I go back and type the excerpts up into a big Google doc I keep for this purpose along with a paragraph or two of my thoughts on the book. Usually the quotes trigger the tangential ideas I had while reading and I can synthesize them into something useful. I'm happy I found this technique. I think it's significantly upped the utility I get from books, since I can go back and remember what hit me about them.

mk4p 9y ago
When you say "synthesize them into something useful", what do you mean? What's something useful that's resulted from this habit?
- majos 9y ago
  "Something useful" here refers to an opinion on what the book in question is "about", or an interesting lesson I drew from it, or a coherent reason why I might recommend it to somebody else. Here, for example, is what I wrote down for A House For Mr Biswas: > Finished yesterday, and found this primarily a story about a man who never really knows himself, and as a result can never quite situate other people in relation to himself. Fits and starts of self-improvement, a sense of life about to begin that persists for far too long, shifting roles played according to setting, a series of humiliations for which books offer some kind of solace and hope for betterment -- yikes. Like Proust, Naipaul seems to like unpacking the (nonobvious, often directly contradicting the obvious) motivations behind actions, and like The God of Small Things, the picture that emerges is one in which nobody is all that good, though it mercifully lacks its clockwork-mechanism-of-misery aspect I generally find that books leave me with ideas and sensations that tend to just dissipate if I don't write them down. This is a way of combating that.

eksemplar 9y ago

I can relate. Extremely annoying when it happens on texts that are need to read, more acceptable when it’s leisure and I can always go back later. It also happens when I listen to audiobooks. Sometimes I pause these or swap to music if the wandering is too bad.

rootbear 9y ago

Boy, can I relate. This happens to me all the time, especially when reading science fiction and the author drops some really interesting new idea in my head. I've had to reread a whole page because I kept reading on inertia while my mind absorbed the cool new idea.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

hyperpallium 9y ago

Yes, somehow the reading mind reads, but no one's listening. However, for me it often triggers a new idea. I think the problem is not the wandering itself, but self-focus of the wandering. Great eureka moments come from wandering, but they are about external, objective questions. John Stuart Mill (the utilitarianism guy) developed an "anti-self-consciousness theory" and overcame his depression/ennui. "Ask yourself whether you are happy, and you cease to be so. The only chance is to treat, not happiness, but some end external to it as the purpose of life. Let your self-consciousness, your scrutiny, your self-interrogation exhaust themselves on that." --- http://theliterarylink.com/anti_selfconsciousness.html http://theliterarylink.com/anti_selfconsciousness.html https://books.google.com.au/books?id=nSprYzk7q40C&pg=PA180&lpg=PA180&dq=anti+self+consciousness+theory+quote+exhaust https://books.google.com.au/books?id=nSprYzk7q40C&pg=PA180&l...

jknoepfler 9y ago

I take road trips alone occasionally to have very long, uninterrupted periods to allow my mind to wander. I've always felt that it was very valuable, whether I was dwelling on an exciting new idea, something deeply upsetting, or something completely nonsensical. I don't think of the associated depression, loneliness and boredom as being good or bad, they are simply part of a rich mental life. I am often frustrated by difficulty concentrating, though, and frequently have invasive thoughts as you describe. The things that have helped me most with those are eliminating caffeine, meditating regularly (particularly compassion meditation, peculiarly), and exercise. But yes, I can relate! I'm very grateful for having a mind that wanders, despite the irritation (it's not unlike caring for a small child I think)

npsimons 9y ago

> That means, I continue reading, but I think about something else triggered by what's in the book. Then I switch back to the book realizing "Wait, where was I? I have no idea why I'm reading this, and now I skipped a whole page." Solve this with a "catch": something you use to empty the distracting ideas from your head, then get back to what you're doing. The original suggestion for a catch I found in "Mind Performance Hacks" by Ron Hale-Evans was a piece of paper and a writing utensil. These days with all sorts of apps to "catch" ideas, you have plenty of options. I've become very comfortable with org-mode myself.

jcmoscon 9y ago

You should read "How to read a book" book from Mortimer Adler. If you read a book asking questions about why did the author said that? is it true? so what? Your mind will stop wondering around and you will be actively searching for the answers. That's a good book and everybody should read it.

lilbobbytables 9y ago

Yep, books have typically been a poor way to learn for me, unless they're really good (by the metric of keeping me engaged). It has always been a frustrating thing.

simonebrunozzi 9y ago

> Reading a book, where I actually need to concentrate on the book, some contents generate occasional mind branches. That means, I continue reading, but I think about something else triggered by what's in the book. Then I switch back to the book realizing "Wait, where was I? I have no idea why I'm reading this, and now I skipped a whole page." I completely relate to this.