5 ms·

The article omits the fact that as a consequence Portugal has one of the highest energy prices in europe and that fact played a significant role in the portugue

The article omits the fact that as a consequence Portugal has one of the highest energy prices in europe and that fact played a significant role in the portuguese economic crisis that started back in 2008 and culminated in the 2011 banktuptcy and subsequent bailout program.

JetSpiegel 9y ago
The energy prices are not completely tied to this investment. Most of it came from EU funding. Most of the price is taxes of various kinds and monopolistic behaviour by EDP. After the privatization, but increasingly so after being sold to the Chinese state. The market is only nominally free, and since REN who owns the network is ALSO owned by the Chinese state (who the hell thought that was a good idea? Oh, he is the Chairman of EDP now), that won't change.
- sergiosgc 9y ago
  > The energy prices are not completely tied to this investment. Most of it came from EU funding. Minor nitpick: Most of it predates the EU. It came from national effort first, and the Marshall Plan next, from the 1930s to the late 60s. That's when most dams were built.
mapleoin 9y ago
As a consequence of what? Of them subsidising fossil fuel?
- sergiosgc 9y ago
  Mostly as a consequence of a mismanaged monopoly held by EDP. Regulation didn't work, and we made it worse during the crisis by selling all of EDP (including REN, the electricity transport company) to private foreign entities. I don't see any hope of a more efficient market in the near future. Not everything is poor management, though. The current infrastructure, which allows these records, is the result of a huge hydro-dam program in the 1950s and a very strong incentive for wind power in the noughties.
pjc50 9y ago
> portuguese economic crisis that started back in 2008 Global economic crisis.
- pjmlp 9y ago
  Might have started globally, but we did our share to "improve" it with our housing credits and the way many business work.
Mashimo 9y ago
>The article omits the fact that as a consequence Portugal has one of the highest energy prices in europe It's in the Top 6, yet only slightly more then Euro-area average. [0] Though it might be higher if you take average income into account. [0] http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/7/79/Electricity_prices_for_household_consumers%2C_first_half_2017_%28EUR_per_kWh%29.png http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/7/7... from http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Electricity_price_statistics http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/...
- adrianN 9y ago
  Before taxes it's even below EU average.
  - dx034 9y ago
    Which doesn't matter because you have to pay taxes.
    - adrianN 9y ago
      It matters if you want to judge whether renewable energy makes production more expensive or not.
      - geezerjay 9y ago
        You're missing the point. The portuguese state levies energy taxes as part of the public-private partnership deals which subsidize corporations that took a part of the national renewable energy program. Those taxes are so eggregious that even the IMF demanded that the portuguese government should lower them as they harmed the economic recovery.
- mping 9y ago
  But you would have to adjust for cost of living right? Electricity bills can easily go over 200euro for a family of 3 in the winter, median wage is probably around 1k...
fwdpropaganda 9y ago
> that fact played a significant role in the portuguese economic crisis Citation needed, or stop spreading disinformation

JetSpiegel 9y ago

The energy prices are not completely tied to this investment. Most of it came from EU funding. Most of the price is taxes of various kinds and monopolistic behaviour by EDP. After the privatization, but increasingly so after being sold to the Chinese state. The market is only nominally free, and since REN who owns the network is ALSO owned by the Chinese state (who the hell thought that was a good idea? Oh, he is the Chairman of EDP now), that won't change.

sergiosgc 9y ago
> The energy prices are not completely tied to this investment. Most of it came from EU funding. Minor nitpick: Most of it predates the EU. It came from national effort first, and the Marshall Plan next, from the 1930s to the late 60s. That's when most dams were built.

mapleoin 9y ago

As a consequence of what? Of them subsidising fossil fuel?

sergiosgc 9y ago
Mostly as a consequence of a mismanaged monopoly held by EDP. Regulation didn't work, and we made it worse during the crisis by selling all of EDP (including REN, the electricity transport company) to private foreign entities. I don't see any hope of a more efficient market in the near future. Not everything is poor management, though. The current infrastructure, which allows these records, is the result of a huge hydro-dam program in the 1950s and a very strong incentive for wind power in the noughties.

pjc50 9y ago

> portuguese economic crisis that started back in 2008 Global economic crisis.

pjmlp 9y ago
Might have started globally, but we did our share to "improve" it with our housing credits and the way many business work.

Mashimo 9y ago

>The article omits the fact that as a consequence Portugal has one of the highest energy prices in europe It's in the Top 6, yet only slightly more then Euro-area average. [0] Though it might be higher if you take average income into account. [0] http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/7/79/Electricity_prices_for_household_consumers%2C_first_half_2017_%28EUR_per_kWh%29.png http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/7/7... from http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Electricity_price_statistics http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/...

adrianN 9y ago
Before taxes it's even below EU average.
- dx034 9y ago
  Which doesn't matter because you have to pay taxes.
  - adrianN 9y ago
    It matters if you want to judge whether renewable energy makes production more expensive or not.
    - geezerjay 9y ago
      You're missing the point. The portuguese state levies energy taxes as part of the public-private partnership deals which subsidize corporations that took a part of the national renewable energy program. Those taxes are so eggregious that even the IMF demanded that the portuguese government should lower them as they harmed the economic recovery.
mping 9y ago
But you would have to adjust for cost of living right? Electricity bills can easily go over 200euro for a family of 3 in the winter, median wage is probably around 1k...

fwdpropaganda 9y ago

> that fact played a significant role in the portuguese economic crisis Citation needed, or stop spreading disinformation