5 ms·

I'm sorry, but you're so very wrong. US haven't ever grown any richer since ~1980s. They just borrowed more with each month. You should see US trade deficit and

I'm sorry, but you're so very wrong. US haven't ever grown any richer since ~1980s. They just borrowed more with each month. You should see US trade deficit and annual budget for proofs.

InclinedPlane 16y ago
The US has gotten richer, and has also borrowed more. Since the 80s median family income has increased by about 1/3, adjusted for inflation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:United_States_Income_Distribution_1947-2007.svg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:United_States_Income_Distr...
- _pius 16y ago
  I think the parent meant that the U.S. Government has borrowed more and more. It seems to me that you're talking about citizens being richer while parent is talking about the government being poorer.
- xentronium 16y ago
  http://globalpolicy.org/component/content/article/214/44197.html http://globalpolicy.org/component/content/article/214/44197.... Build a graph from that data and you'll be very surprised, I guess. 1980 -- $1.3 trillion 2006 -- $12.8 trillion [edit]: Oh, there's a graph actually: http://globalpolicy.org/images/charts/SocialEconomicPolicy/trade_buget_deficits/householdgraph.gif http://globalpolicy.org/images/charts/SocialEconomicPolicy/t...
  - InclinedPlane 16y ago
    How does this contradict my point? The US has gotten richer, and it has also borrowed more. The two are not mutually exclusive.
    - xentronium 16y ago
      Today Bob borrowed $100 from Alice and earned $5 on his daily basis. Bob thinks he became $105 richer while Alice doubts that.
      - potatolicious 16y ago
        Individual income vs. government borrowing/spending are not the same thing. Your analogy, corrected: Today Bob's parents borrowed $100 from Alice and Bob earned $5 on his own. Bob thinks he became $5 richer, Alice is owed $100, and Bob's parents now have more debt.
        xentronium 16y ago
        Two things: 1. Bob's personal debt rose over past years too. 2. Bob's parents are the money issuers. When they decide they can't return their debt they probably make this money worth zero. Whatever, I'm done with that thread, as HNers don't seem to approve :)
tomjen3 16y ago
Yes it has - look at what kind of computer you could buy in 1980 and look at what you can buy now. Heck most smart phones have more computational power than a 1980 computer. So yes, the US has grown richer (money != wealth).
- InclinedPlane 16y ago
  Unfortunately, a lot of this type of wealth generation isn't tracked by most economic measurements. Improvements in the quality of automobiles, entertainment systems, communication systems, etc. have been tremendous over the past decades, but almost none of that surfaces in statistics, mostly because to some degree such improvements are subjective and hard to measure quantitatively.
  - maw 16y ago
    Too right. And not only that, but some of the goods and services we enjoy today didn't even exist not all that long ago.
- xentronium 16y ago
  Alice got $95 in her pocket and $100 credit in the bank. Can you say that overall she's richer from state when she had $5 in her pocket and $0 credit?

I'm sorry, but you're so very wrong. US haven't ever grown any richer since ~1980s. They just borrowed more with each month. You should see US trade deficit and annual budget for proofs.

InclinedPlane 16y ago

The US has gotten richer, and has also borrowed more. Since the 80s median family income has increased by about 1/3, adjusted for inflation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:United_States_Income_Distribution_1947-2007.svg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:United_States_Income_Distr...

_pius 16y ago
I think the parent meant that the U.S. Government has borrowed more and more. It seems to me that you're talking about citizens being richer while parent is talking about the government being poorer.
xentronium 16y ago
http://globalpolicy.org/component/content/article/214/44197.html http://globalpolicy.org/component/content/article/214/44197.... Build a graph from that data and you'll be very surprised, I guess. 1980 -- $1.3 trillion 2006 -- $12.8 trillion [edit]: Oh, there's a graph actually: http://globalpolicy.org/images/charts/SocialEconomicPolicy/trade_buget_deficits/householdgraph.gif http://globalpolicy.org/images/charts/SocialEconomicPolicy/t...
- InclinedPlane 16y ago
  How does this contradict my point? The US has gotten richer, and it has also borrowed more. The two are not mutually exclusive.
  - xentronium 16y ago
    Today Bob borrowed $100 from Alice and earned $5 on his daily basis. Bob thinks he became $105 richer while Alice doubts that.
    - potatolicious 16y ago
      Individual income vs. government borrowing/spending are not the same thing. Your analogy, corrected: Today Bob's parents borrowed $100 from Alice and Bob earned $5 on his own. Bob thinks he became $5 richer, Alice is owed $100, and Bob's parents now have more debt.
      - xentronium 16y ago
        Two things: 1. Bob's personal debt rose over past years too. 2. Bob's parents are the money issuers. When they decide they can't return their debt they probably make this money worth zero. Whatever, I'm done with that thread, as HNers don't seem to approve :)

tomjen3 16y ago

Yes it has - look at what kind of computer you could buy in 1980 and look at what you can buy now. Heck most smart phones have more computational power than a 1980 computer. So yes, the US has grown richer (money != wealth).

InclinedPlane 16y ago
Unfortunately, a lot of this type of wealth generation isn't tracked by most economic measurements. Improvements in the quality of automobiles, entertainment systems, communication systems, etc. have been tremendous over the past decades, but almost none of that surfaces in statistics, mostly because to some degree such improvements are subjective and hard to measure quantitatively.
- maw 16y ago
  Too right. And not only that, but some of the goods and services we enjoy today didn't even exist not all that long ago.
xentronium 16y ago
Alice got $95 in her pocket and $100 credit in the bank. Can you say that overall she's richer from state when she had $5 in her pocket and $0 credit?