5 ms·

Where to find a business to copy? Drive around to find a simple business at which customers are lined up out the door. For example, see a successful burrito sho

Where to find a business to copy? Drive around to find a simple business at which customers are lined up out the door. For example, see a successful burrito shop or espresso cart? Open a similar one in a similar neighborhood. Your chances of success will be a helluva lot higher than 20%. ... says the man who has obviously never done business in the food service industry. The failure rate of restaurants is shockingly high.

rich_ard 9y ago
Down on your luck? Open a coffee shop!
- WillReplyfFood 9y ago
  Best buisness ideas come from hollywood- open a bookshop or a boutique - where you get to squander all your wealth in months on stuff of your personal taste.
- wyclif 9y ago
  That's even worse advice than opening a restaurant: http://www.slate.com/articles/life/a_fine_whine/2005/12/bitter_brew.html http://www.slate.com/articles/life/a_fine_whine/2005/12/bitt...
  - ForRealsies 9y ago
    Want to get rich quick? Open a brewery!
D_Alex 9y ago
Plus, I don't think you can build a great society on the back of burrito and espresso shops...
- coldtea 9y ago
  Actually you could build a mighty fine one. A great society is not presupposed on some advanced tech of shit.
  - D_Alex 9y ago
    I completely disagree, but maybe we have different ideas of what a "great society" is.
    - coldtea 9y ago
      Perhaps you imagine some kind of high tech megacity. I'm content with a peaceful population with understanding, love for one another, sense of justice, and free burritos.
- sooheon 9y ago
  Why not? We have 8 billion people to build a great society with, I think 1/8 billionth of human effort could be directed to a great local burrito shop. Great societies are built by people doing their part and loving their lives, not by everyone trying to "change the world".
  - dhbradshaw 9y ago
    I love this comment. It's really refreshing.
  - mantas 9y ago
    A good burrito (or any good food for that matter) can "change the world" much more than yet another "instuber for X" startup...
  - D_Alex 9y ago
    >I think 1/8 billionth of human effort could be directed to a great local burrito shop. But... that is not what the article was about - it suggested imitating an already successful business. Whether you love that or not, by the way. Now if a lot of people followed that advice, you'd get kind of what we have in my home city, an oversupply of coffee shops, all trying desperately to stand out, and nearly all struggling and being miserable.
- zentiggr 9y ago
  Pretty sure that was the author's point, not going for the 'great society' level...
yters 9y ago
I see lots of burrito trucks that seem to have survived awhile. Probably because they don't need to pay all the taxes and such involved with owning a building. Just buy a van, cook some food, and park somewhere people need to eat.
- kbenson 9y ago
  This is also highly locale dependent. Have fun getting ticketed for operating in the wrong area without checking local laws. "You're in a truck, just move" sounds like a good idea until you realize you're back to square one marketing wise and nobody knows you're there.
  - Bartweiss 9y ago
    > Have fun getting ticketed for operating in the wrong area without checking local laws. I've seen more than one food truck which eventually became a stationary establishment because there was only one (desirable) place they could work out legal status. It's pretty common for local laws to include "no selling food from a non-storefront within X feet of a restaurant", which can quickly close off all the good territory.
ACow_Adonis 9y ago
Yeah,that is absolutely horrible advice. I live in a neighborhood where there's businesses with lines out the door, and a reliable number of new businesses springing up each year, seemingly under the advice of "it would be cool to open up a business in neighborhood X because it's super popular". These businesses are inevitably dead within 3 - 12 months, and what's not said/perceived is that they guy with lines or the door runs an incredibly tight ship and has 15 to 20 years of international cooking and restaurant experience under his/her belt. You open up a burrito/coffee shop next to him, and you're going to get the same number of customers as before you opened your business...
- chillingeffect 9y ago
  > You open up a burrito/coffee shop next to him ISTR the article saying something like "located far enough from my store that he wouldn’t fear my competition."
  - TheOtherHobbes 9y ago
    That may not help. The assumption is that Successful Business is successful because of the product it sells, and therefore if you sell the same product you will be successful too. Someone who doesn’t understand why this isn’t guaranteed or what the other relevant variables are probably shouldn’t be giving business advice.
  - ACow_Adonis 9y ago
    Ok. But firstly, he/she doesn't fear your competition now, or when you open. Secondly, this seems to assume that his product is easily replicable, and that you'll be able to find some untouched environment in which to plonk yourself down and get free business. Far enough away from his store is likely in a position where there is no business. Plus we have a phrase for easily replicable businesses in economics: low barriers to entry. And they're exactly the kind of businesses that have the longest tails of miserable wages and miserable returns. What's more, because every man and his dog can do them, there is no untouched environment in which to plonk yourself down and you have competition from everyone. Those who invested in their skills over the long term, are talented, grow their skills, understand the market, get lucky, and/or used their privileged advantages wisely take the prime real estate/positions, and they thrive there. And for the most part, they do not care about some upstart newbie who thinks "making coffee/food is easy" opening up next door, any more than tom hanks loses sleep about all the wannabe actors turning up in LA. You move far enough away, and you lose out on all reasons that the original business person wants that position specifically. And if you're good enough to induce demand where-ever you set up, odds are its because you're good enough (probably through 30+ years of experience) to do so. By all means, imitate successful strategies. But my first advice is not some fantasy regarding being able to find a magical good-transmission person (how do you identify them with your lack of knowledge? How do you know the restraunter isn't barely making minimum wage or burning through his inheritance like so many I see around here despite big lines?) or a magical good-transmission-owning-consultant (again, how do you know one, all consultants will tell you they're good and will be willing to take your money as long as you pay them). No. My advice would simply be to find a couple of fields/skills, preferably ones that aren't looking like they're already going the way of the dodo already, and work your butt off getting good at them. If you think you want to run a restaurant/coffee cart, start working in restaurants, or as a barrister/roaster. If you think you want to run a transmission joint, go work in one. And if you want to turn it into a business, learn some basic economics/business on the side. Low barrier to entry businesses have the lowest expected returns, and every successful business is more complicated than it looks.
jv22222 9y ago
Cloning another sucessfull business is extremely sound advice. One only has to look at Capterra to so how often it is done. Sure, some of the clones don't work out but a lot do. Also, there's no reason why you can't start as a clone and then gradually iterated into something original over time. I.E. Solve the money problem and then move on to something more interesting. (The trick is to clone something that is sucessfull not something that is a good idea with no proven success.)
- WillReplyfFood 9y ago
  Also, if the original fails by decision, you can learn from that and live on.
jvkersch 9y ago
My (admittedly extremely limited) experience is that this is a sound strategy _for established entrepreneurs_, not for tentative business owners who are just getting started. My wife and I were thinking about opening a restaurant, and as has been illustrated elsewhere, the costs are staggering and the total profit (if anything) is rather low. We were looking at total revenue of around £200 000, with maybe a 5% profit margin. This did not take into account kinda-expected risks, like staff quitting, which would have sent costs through the roof. By contrast, a little later we talked to a guy who sets up pubs for a living (for a large chain). They have costs down to a minimum, can rotate staff easily, and essentially have a playbook for starting a reasonably succesful, risk-free business in a few months. On top of that, they have departments full of people whose job it is to drive around looking for succesful business to copy (paraphrasing the original quote). This was profoundly depressing to me, since it made me think that even if we'd overcome the odds, we'd probably end up getting cloned by one of these behemoths...

rich_ard 9y ago

Down on your luck? Open a coffee shop!

WillReplyfFood 9y ago
Best buisness ideas come from hollywood- open a bookshop or a boutique - where you get to squander all your wealth in months on stuff of your personal taste.
wyclif 9y ago
That's even worse advice than opening a restaurant: http://www.slate.com/articles/life/a_fine_whine/2005/12/bitter_brew.html http://www.slate.com/articles/life/a_fine_whine/2005/12/bitt...
- ForRealsies 9y ago
  Want to get rich quick? Open a brewery!

D_Alex 9y ago

Plus, I don't think you can build a great society on the back of burrito and espresso shops...

coldtea 9y ago
Actually you could build a mighty fine one. A great society is not presupposed on some advanced tech of shit.
- D_Alex 9y ago
  I completely disagree, but maybe we have different ideas of what a "great society" is.
  - coldtea 9y ago
    Perhaps you imagine some kind of high tech megacity. I'm content with a peaceful population with understanding, love for one another, sense of justice, and free burritos.
sooheon 9y ago
Why not? We have 8 billion people to build a great society with, I think 1/8 billionth of human effort could be directed to a great local burrito shop. Great societies are built by people doing their part and loving their lives, not by everyone trying to "change the world".
- dhbradshaw 9y ago
  I love this comment. It's really refreshing.
- mantas 9y ago
  A good burrito (or any good food for that matter) can "change the world" much more than yet another "instuber for X" startup...
- D_Alex 9y ago
  >I think 1/8 billionth of human effort could be directed to a great local burrito shop. But... that is not what the article was about - it suggested imitating an already successful business. Whether you love that or not, by the way. Now if a lot of people followed that advice, you'd get kind of what we have in my home city, an oversupply of coffee shops, all trying desperately to stand out, and nearly all struggling and being miserable.
zentiggr 9y ago
Pretty sure that was the author's point, not going for the 'great society' level...

yters 9y ago

I see lots of burrito trucks that seem to have survived awhile. Probably because they don't need to pay all the taxes and such involved with owning a building. Just buy a van, cook some food, and park somewhere people need to eat.

kbenson 9y ago
This is also highly locale dependent. Have fun getting ticketed for operating in the wrong area without checking local laws. "You're in a truck, just move" sounds like a good idea until you realize you're back to square one marketing wise and nobody knows you're there.
- Bartweiss 9y ago
  > Have fun getting ticketed for operating in the wrong area without checking local laws. I've seen more than one food truck which eventually became a stationary establishment because there was only one (desirable) place they could work out legal status. It's pretty common for local laws to include "no selling food from a non-storefront within X feet of a restaurant", which can quickly close off all the good territory.

ACow_Adonis 9y ago

Yeah,that is absolutely horrible advice. I live in a neighborhood where there's businesses with lines out the door, and a reliable number of new businesses springing up each year, seemingly under the advice of "it would be cool to open up a business in neighborhood X because it's super popular". These businesses are inevitably dead within 3 - 12 months, and what's not said/perceived is that they guy with lines or the door runs an incredibly tight ship and has 15 to 20 years of international cooking and restaurant experience under his/her belt. You open up a burrito/coffee shop next to him, and you're going to get the same number of customers as before you opened your business...

chillingeffect 9y ago
> You open up a burrito/coffee shop next to him ISTR the article saying something like "located far enough from my store that he wouldn’t fear my competition."
- TheOtherHobbes 9y ago
  That may not help. The assumption is that Successful Business is successful because of the product it sells, and therefore if you sell the same product you will be successful too. Someone who doesn’t understand why this isn’t guaranteed or what the other relevant variables are probably shouldn’t be giving business advice.
- ACow_Adonis 9y ago
  Ok. But firstly, he/she doesn't fear your competition now, or when you open. Secondly, this seems to assume that his product is easily replicable, and that you'll be able to find some untouched environment in which to plonk yourself down and get free business. Far enough away from his store is likely in a position where there is no business. Plus we have a phrase for easily replicable businesses in economics: low barriers to entry. And they're exactly the kind of businesses that have the longest tails of miserable wages and miserable returns. What's more, because every man and his dog can do them, there is no untouched environment in which to plonk yourself down and you have competition from everyone. Those who invested in their skills over the long term, are talented, grow their skills, understand the market, get lucky, and/or used their privileged advantages wisely take the prime real estate/positions, and they thrive there. And for the most part, they do not care about some upstart newbie who thinks "making coffee/food is easy" opening up next door, any more than tom hanks loses sleep about all the wannabe actors turning up in LA. You move far enough away, and you lose out on all reasons that the original business person wants that position specifically. And if you're good enough to induce demand where-ever you set up, odds are its because you're good enough (probably through 30+ years of experience) to do so. By all means, imitate successful strategies. But my first advice is not some fantasy regarding being able to find a magical good-transmission person (how do you identify them with your lack of knowledge? How do you know the restraunter isn't barely making minimum wage or burning through his inheritance like so many I see around here despite big lines?) or a magical good-transmission-owning-consultant (again, how do you know one, all consultants will tell you they're good and will be willing to take your money as long as you pay them). No. My advice would simply be to find a couple of fields/skills, preferably ones that aren't looking like they're already going the way of the dodo already, and work your butt off getting good at them. If you think you want to run a restaurant/coffee cart, start working in restaurants, or as a barrister/roaster. If you think you want to run a transmission joint, go work in one. And if you want to turn it into a business, learn some basic economics/business on the side. Low barrier to entry businesses have the lowest expected returns, and every successful business is more complicated than it looks.

jv22222 9y ago

Cloning another sucessfull business is extremely sound advice. One only has to look at Capterra to so how often it is done. Sure, some of the clones don't work out but a lot do. Also, there's no reason why you can't start as a clone and then gradually iterated into something original over time. I.E. Solve the money problem and then move on to something more interesting. (The trick is to clone something that is sucessfull not something that is a good idea with no proven success.)

WillReplyfFood 9y ago
Also, if the original fails by decision, you can learn from that and live on.

jvkersch 9y ago

My (admittedly extremely limited) experience is that this is a sound strategy _for established entrepreneurs_, not for tentative business owners who are just getting started. My wife and I were thinking about opening a restaurant, and as has been illustrated elsewhere, the costs are staggering and the total profit (if anything) is rather low. We were looking at total revenue of around £200 000, with maybe a 5% profit margin. This did not take into account kinda-expected risks, like staff quitting, which would have sent costs through the roof. By contrast, a little later we talked to a guy who sets up pubs for a living (for a large chain). They have costs down to a minimum, can rotate staff easily, and essentially have a playbook for starting a reasonably succesful, risk-free business in a few months. On top of that, they have departments full of people whose job it is to drive around looking for succesful business to copy (paraphrasing the original quote). This was profoundly depressing to me, since it made me think that even if we'd overcome the odds, we'd probably end up getting cloned by one of these behemoths...