5 ms·

Is this a serious question? Maybe ask why America is the only democratic nation with uncapped campaign spending.

by gt_ 9y ago

smsm42 9y ago
America is also the only democratic nation with First Amendment. In other democratic nations (like Britain) you can now be investigated, fined or jailed for posting a video or retweeting or sharing something on Facebook. I somehow prefer the former.
- pjc50 9y ago
  And you can in America too. "Jailed for a Facebook post:" https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/18/facebook-comments-arrest-prosecution https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/18/facebook-com...
  - smsm42 9y ago
    No, it's not jailed for facebook post, it's jailed for a facebook post calling to an immediate specific violent action against a specific person. If a mafia boss tells his capo "let's whack that mofo", then it'd be very disingenuous to claim the mafia boss was prosecuted for speech, not for organizing a murder. Obviously, free speech protections do not apply when the speech is a part of a crime - either one that happened or one that is about to happen. Saying "let's burn this specific guy's house down" is well within the limits that should get police's attention. Even then, in this case, Peralta was not prosecuted. Which is probably OK if he was just extremely stupid and not actually intended to proceed with burning the house down. But specific violent threat is not the same as just speech, and one should never present it as such.
  - giarc 9y ago
    You read his comment right? He publicly posted "...It's time to strike back. Let’s burn this motherfucker’s house down." About a police officer. It is not right to post that.
- gt_ 9y ago
  First amendment is just symbolic of course. Once your speech encroaches on enough profit, it will be brought down in no time by the same forces that prevent campaign finance caps. In America you can also freely speak slander on the internet and the victim will have to live with it for life.
  - smsm42 9y ago
    > Once your speech encroaches on enough profit, it will be brought down in no time by the same forces that prevent campaign finance caps. It is fascinating that you do not recognize how contradictory your statement is. "Campaign finance caps" is the limitation of speech, so if "the forces" prevent it from happening, they are not shutting down any speech - they enable it. With that, I have never heard any of the organization opposing campaign finance caps ever shutting down any political speech. Can you name 2-3 cases? I can name a case where a prominent politician, known for support of campaign finance limitations (and running an extremely well-financed campaign), tried to suppress clearly political speech against that politician, under the guise of campaign finance laws. You know this case as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC > In America you can also freely speak slander on the internet and the victim will have to live with it for life. Slander is a verbal spoken defamation. Defamation is a persistent form is called libel. Both are actionable offenses in the US. Of course, proving libel is not easy. Neither it should be.
chimeracoder 9y ago
> Maybe ask why America is the only democratic nation with uncapped campaign spending. Where on earth do you get an idea like that? No, the US is not the only democratic nation with uncapped campaign spending, for any plausible definition of "democratic" and "campaign spending".
- gt_ 9y ago
  Actually since Citizens United this is effectively pretty much the case. The caps in other countries might not implemented in an umbrella dollar amount but as rules like no TV ads, or the dollar amount could only apply to certain items. Often it is a cap on donations which effectively caps spending. At the end of the day, democracies generally must limit campaigning influence because if they don’t, they might end up with skewed democratic process, possibly a reality show star as president.
  - chimeracoder 9y ago
    > Actually since Citizens United this is effectively pretty much the case. This is a gross misunderstanding of the Citizens United ruling.

Is this a serious question? Maybe ask why America is the only democratic nation with uncapped campaign spending.

by gt_ 9y ago

Is this a serious question? Maybe ask why America is the only democratic nation with uncapped campaign spending.

America is also the only democratic nation with First Amendment. In other democratic nations (like Britain) you can now be investigated, fined or jailed for posting a video or retweeting or sharing something on Facebook. I somehow prefer the former.

pjc50 9y ago
And you can in America too. "Jailed for a Facebook post:" https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/18/facebook-comments-arrest-prosecution https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/18/facebook-com...
- smsm42 9y ago
  No, it's not jailed for facebook post, it's jailed for a facebook post calling to an immediate specific violent action against a specific person. If a mafia boss tells his capo "let's whack that mofo", then it'd be very disingenuous to claim the mafia boss was prosecuted for speech, not for organizing a murder. Obviously, free speech protections do not apply when the speech is a part of a crime - either one that happened or one that is about to happen. Saying "let's burn this specific guy's house down" is well within the limits that should get police's attention. Even then, in this case, Peralta was not prosecuted. Which is probably OK if he was just extremely stupid and not actually intended to proceed with burning the house down. But specific violent threat is not the same as just speech, and one should never present it as such.
- giarc 9y ago
  You read his comment right? He publicly posted "...It's time to strike back. Let’s burn this motherfucker’s house down." About a police officer. It is not right to post that.
gt_ 9y ago
First amendment is just symbolic of course. Once your speech encroaches on enough profit, it will be brought down in no time by the same forces that prevent campaign finance caps. In America you can also freely speak slander on the internet and the victim will have to live with it for life.
- smsm42 9y ago
  > Once your speech encroaches on enough profit, it will be brought down in no time by the same forces that prevent campaign finance caps. It is fascinating that you do not recognize how contradictory your statement is. "Campaign finance caps" is the limitation of speech, so if "the forces" prevent it from happening, they are not shutting down any speech - they enable it. With that, I have never heard any of the organization opposing campaign finance caps ever shutting down any political speech. Can you name 2-3 cases? I can name a case where a prominent politician, known for support of campaign finance limitations (and running an extremely well-financed campaign), tried to suppress clearly political speech against that politician, under the guise of campaign finance laws. You know this case as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC > In America you can also freely speak slander on the internet and the victim will have to live with it for life. Slander is a verbal spoken defamation. Defamation is a persistent form is called libel. Both are actionable offenses in the US. Of course, proving libel is not easy. Neither it should be.

chimeracoder 9y ago

> Maybe ask why America is the only democratic nation with uncapped campaign spending. Where on earth do you get an idea like that? No, the US is not the only democratic nation with uncapped campaign spending, for any plausible definition of "democratic" and "campaign spending".

gt_ 9y ago
Actually since Citizens United this is effectively pretty much the case. The caps in other countries might not implemented in an umbrella dollar amount but as rules like no TV ads, or the dollar amount could only apply to certain items. Often it is a cap on donations which effectively caps spending. At the end of the day, democracies generally must limit campaigning influence because if they don’t, they might end up with skewed democratic process, possibly a reality show star as president.
- chimeracoder 9y ago
  > Actually since Citizens United this is effectively pretty much the case. This is a gross misunderstanding of the Citizens United ruling.