6 ms·

The first sentence already contains a lie. "A lot of factors have contributed to American inequality: slavery, economic policy, technological change, the power

The first sentence already contains a lie. "A lot of factors have contributed to American inequality: slavery, economic policy, technological change, the power of lobbying, globalization, and so on." Slavery ended more than 150 years ago. To claim that it is a contributing factor to current economic inequality is absurd. Racism and discrimination, sure. But not slavery.

bigmanwalter 9y ago
Slaves had their labour stolen from for hundreds of years and were given no land or other economic basis for them to thrive with. In a competitive landscape, without any capital there is no way to rise. This is also ignoring the fact that slavery does still exist in the prison system. Prisoners are paid almost nothing for their labour, and are charged astronomical prices for essentials such as toothpaste or deodorant.
coldtea 9y ago
>Slavery ended more than 150 years ago. To claim that it is a contributing factor to current economic inequality is absurd. Racism and discrimination, sure. But not slavery. The history of slavery directly fed into racism and discrimination post-abolition into ways that minorities without a past as slaves haven't had to experience. Not only that, but these persons didn't even have a state culture of their own (being owned things and not people, and being forcibly abducted from their own cultures). They had to inhabit a dominant culture created by the norms of others (their owners) and run by them. Their culture was half-adopted from their masters, staff they managed to save from their old countries, and whatever they improvised (under the stern eyes of the whites) here. Besides, 150 years is nothing in historical terms as it relates to the continued impact of something on a population, doubly so for something as impactful as being see (and having to live as) "an inferior class of persons owned by other people". For example the US was founded by religious zealots, and even today, 300+ years later and tons of immigrants from others countries having been added, it very much shows, and is very much a dominant part of the cultural landscape.
whichdan 9y ago
The lack of multigenerational wealth due to slavery is still a very real and relevant issue.
- turc1656 9y ago
  How was it possible, then, for millions of immigrants to come to this country with absolutely nothing and in many cases escape poverty, or at least set up their children for decent, middle class lives? They had no multigenerational wealth to speak of. Also, studies show that 70% of multigenerational wealth is gone by the second generation and 90% is gone by the third generation. There has been at least 7 generations since the ending of slavery. EDIT - I would also like to point out that a fundamental point of this article was that the economist discovered it was basically more fair and easier to escape poverty prior to 1970.
  - notfromhere 9y ago
    Because most immigrants had cultural capital and weren't systematically discriminated and prevented from gaining wealth. African culture and family structure was systematically wiped out, while Europeans didn't face the same struggle. Jim Crow only ended 60 years ago
reubenswartz 9y ago
Failing to understand something does not make it a lie.
- turc1656 9y ago
  Would you mind elaborating a bit? What am I not understanding? The way I see it is that tens of millions of immigrants came to this nation since slavery has ended, most with little or nothing and were able to make lives for themselves and in many cases set up their descendants for middle class (or better) lifestyles. I see no reason this wouldn't apply to freed slaves and their offspring. To be clear, the issue being raised is slavery, not racism or discrimination, which I specified as separate in my original post. I would be very curious as to how slavery specifically is still affecting modern economic inequality when not lumping it in with the separate issues of racism and discrimination. EDIT - I would also like to point out that a fundamental point of this article was that the economist discovered it was basically more fair and easier to escape poverty prior to 1970.
  - reubenswartz 9y ago
    Sure, slavery was outlawed 150 years ago, after several centuries of practicing it, but after it ended, there was a separate regime of laws and extralegal terror that made it hard for former slaves to build wealth. There's a direct line to today, where most middle class families got a big chunk of their wealth from home ownership, which was explicitly racially segregated (not just the housing itself, but the loans). Now, is this technically "slavery"? No, but it comes from that past. Of course, millions of immigrants and descendants of former slaves have achieved economic "success", but it seems pretty clear to me that the shadow of slavery still shapes our economy in important ways. You may disagree, but calling it a "lie" seems a bit much.
frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
>Slavery ended more than 150 years ago. To claim that it is a contributing factor to current economic inequality is absurd. Racism and discrimination, sure. But not slavery. Take a look at the black-white wealth gap. To root that gap in an explanation other than the legacy of prejudice and slavery is going to require some tenuous logic.
mikeash 9y ago
Slavery did not go quietly. Alternate structures were constructed to continue exploiting the former slaves. Jim Crow was dismantled within living memory, and even that did not stop all of it.
- turc1656 9y ago
  This sounds like racism and discrimination (which I mentioned as separate issues). And they are indeed separate. A country need not have had slavery as an institution to have racism and discrimination. EDIT - I would also like to point out that a fundamental point of this article was that the economist discovered it was basically more fair and easier to escape poverty prior to 1970.
  - stevenwoo 9y ago
    The United States is kind of special in that we enshrined slavery in our founding document in 1787 and this insinuated itself into the fabric of society in a multitude of ways. Apartheid era South Africa may be the only equivalent for the past 150 years.
  - mikeash 9y ago
    You could say that slavery itself was just an aspect of racism and discrimination, as it was practiced in the US. You can’t really separate these issues.
jandrese 9y ago
Saying "Slavery was ended 150 years ago" is a Mission Accomplished kind of statement. It ignores the actual results on the ground because you had one top level legislative win.
gandwq 9y ago
Slavery did not end. There are between 12 and 46 million slaves right now [1]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_slavery https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_slavery
- turc1656 9y ago
  The quote specifically mentions American inequality. There are no legal slaves in America currently. The closest thing is sex trafficking, and that is very clearly not what the author was referring to. EDIT - I would also like to point out that a fundamental point of this article was that the economist discovered it was basically more fair and easier to escape poverty prior to 1970.
khedoros1 9y ago
Patterns created due to slavery are still being felt today, and were felt even more sharply by the older generations that are still around. To claim that it's not a contributing factor to current economic inequality is absurd.

bigmanwalter 9y ago

Slaves had their labour stolen from for hundreds of years and were given no land or other economic basis for them to thrive with. In a competitive landscape, without any capital there is no way to rise. This is also ignoring the fact that slavery does still exist in the prison system. Prisoners are paid almost nothing for their labour, and are charged astronomical prices for essentials such as toothpaste or deodorant.

coldtea 9y ago

>Slavery ended more than 150 years ago. To claim that it is a contributing factor to current economic inequality is absurd. Racism and discrimination, sure. But not slavery. The history of slavery directly fed into racism and discrimination post-abolition into ways that minorities without a past as slaves haven't had to experience. Not only that, but these persons didn't even have a state culture of their own (being owned things and not people, and being forcibly abducted from their own cultures). They had to inhabit a dominant culture created by the norms of others (their owners) and run by them. Their culture was half-adopted from their masters, staff they managed to save from their old countries, and whatever they improvised (under the stern eyes of the whites) here. Besides, 150 years is nothing in historical terms as it relates to the continued impact of something on a population, doubly so for something as impactful as being see (and having to live as) "an inferior class of persons owned by other people". For example the US was founded by religious zealots, and even today, 300+ years later and tons of immigrants from others countries having been added, it very much shows, and is very much a dominant part of the cultural landscape.

whichdan 9y ago

The lack of multigenerational wealth due to slavery is still a very real and relevant issue.

turc1656 9y ago
How was it possible, then, for millions of immigrants to come to this country with absolutely nothing and in many cases escape poverty, or at least set up their children for decent, middle class lives? They had no multigenerational wealth to speak of. Also, studies show that 70% of multigenerational wealth is gone by the second generation and 90% is gone by the third generation. There has been at least 7 generations since the ending of slavery. EDIT - I would also like to point out that a fundamental point of this article was that the economist discovered it was basically more fair and easier to escape poverty prior to 1970.
- notfromhere 9y ago
  Because most immigrants had cultural capital and weren't systematically discriminated and prevented from gaining wealth. African culture and family structure was systematically wiped out, while Europeans didn't face the same struggle. Jim Crow only ended 60 years ago

reubenswartz 9y ago

Failing to understand something does not make it a lie.

turc1656 9y ago
Would you mind elaborating a bit? What am I not understanding? The way I see it is that tens of millions of immigrants came to this nation since slavery has ended, most with little or nothing and were able to make lives for themselves and in many cases set up their descendants for middle class (or better) lifestyles. I see no reason this wouldn't apply to freed slaves and their offspring. To be clear, the issue being raised is slavery, not racism or discrimination, which I specified as separate in my original post. I would be very curious as to how slavery specifically is still affecting modern economic inequality when not lumping it in with the separate issues of racism and discrimination. EDIT - I would also like to point out that a fundamental point of this article was that the economist discovered it was basically more fair and easier to escape poverty prior to 1970.
- reubenswartz 9y ago
  Sure, slavery was outlawed 150 years ago, after several centuries of practicing it, but after it ended, there was a separate regime of laws and extralegal terror that made it hard for former slaves to build wealth. There's a direct line to today, where most middle class families got a big chunk of their wealth from home ownership, which was explicitly racially segregated (not just the housing itself, but the loans). Now, is this technically "slavery"? No, but it comes from that past. Of course, millions of immigrants and descendants of former slaves have achieved economic "success", but it seems pretty clear to me that the shadow of slavery still shapes our economy in important ways. You may disagree, but calling it a "lie" seems a bit much.

frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago

>Slavery ended more than 150 years ago. To claim that it is a contributing factor to current economic inequality is absurd. Racism and discrimination, sure. But not slavery. Take a look at the black-white wealth gap. To root that gap in an explanation other than the legacy of prejudice and slavery is going to require some tenuous logic.

mikeash 9y ago

Slavery did not go quietly. Alternate structures were constructed to continue exploiting the former slaves. Jim Crow was dismantled within living memory, and even that did not stop all of it.

turc1656 9y ago
This sounds like racism and discrimination (which I mentioned as separate issues). And they are indeed separate. A country need not have had slavery as an institution to have racism and discrimination. EDIT - I would also like to point out that a fundamental point of this article was that the economist discovered it was basically more fair and easier to escape poverty prior to 1970.
- stevenwoo 9y ago
  The United States is kind of special in that we enshrined slavery in our founding document in 1787 and this insinuated itself into the fabric of society in a multitude of ways. Apartheid era South Africa may be the only equivalent for the past 150 years.
- mikeash 9y ago
  You could say that slavery itself was just an aspect of racism and discrimination, as it was practiced in the US. You can’t really separate these issues.

jandrese 9y ago

Saying "Slavery was ended 150 years ago" is a Mission Accomplished kind of statement. It ignores the actual results on the ground because you had one top level legislative win.

gandwq 9y ago

Slavery did not end. There are between 12 and 46 million slaves right now [1]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_slavery https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_slavery

turc1656 9y ago
The quote specifically mentions American inequality. There are no legal slaves in America currently. The closest thing is sex trafficking, and that is very clearly not what the author was referring to. EDIT - I would also like to point out that a fundamental point of this article was that the economist discovered it was basically more fair and easier to escape poverty prior to 1970.

khedoros1 9y ago

Patterns created due to slavery are still being felt today, and were felt even more sharply by the older generations that are still around. To claim that it's not a contributing factor to current economic inequality is absurd.