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The problem is that people don't fully mature until 25-ish. I wouldn't trust a 23yo lawyer or doctor, no matter how smart they appear. Some things are learned

The problem is that people don't fully mature until 25-ish. I wouldn't trust a 23yo lawyer or doctor, no matter how smart they appear. Some things are learned only by experience, and not just by books. Also, a huge chunk of tech's HR issues are mostly created by startups having very young founders and young managers that don't have real life experience. (to me, young is anybody younger than 30). Half of the firing/issues I have seen in real life could have been easily avoided if the people in the room had more experience.

ghaff 9y ago
Way back when, there was some limited experimentation in the US with 6-year combined college/MD programs. They still exist but very few are 6 year--and they're schools you've probably never heard of. My understanding is that part of the issue was that there was a general feeling that students benefited from the additional time even if it wasn't strictly necessary with respect to coursework.
heliostatic 9y ago
While I think your contention is valid in 2018, it's important to consider how much of this is culturally and historically contingent. Consider the ages of some key figures in the American Revolution in 1776 (https://kottke.org/13/08/the-surprising-ages-of-the-founding-fathers-on-july-4-1776 https://kottke.org/13/08/the-surprising-ages-of-the-founding...) Marquis de Lafayette, 18 James Monroe, 18 Gilbert Stuart, 20 Aaron Burr, 20 Alexander Hamilton, 21 Betsy Ross, 24 James Madison, 25
nailer 9y ago
> I wouldn't trust a 23yo lawyer or doctor, no matter how smart they appear. Some things are learned only by experience, and not just by books. I wouldn't trust a 26 year old or 40 year old newly graduated doctor either, for the same reasons.
jeffreyrogers 9y ago
This is a good point, but I don't think that means we should stick young people in schools while we wait for them to mature. It seems more useful to have them doing some sort of productive work, where they can start learning by experience.
PurpleBoxDragon 9y ago
What do we count as mature? There are different stages of brain development that don't finish until around 25 in women and 28 in men, but these aren't necessary to be mature. Even people who are 40 will make decisions that their 50 year old selves will view as immature. And given that much of what we consider maturity is driven by experience, delaying acquisition of experience until after maturation will result in further delaying maturation for the next generation.
- ardit33 9y ago
  Car companies have decided to be 25, as in many states you can't rent a car if you are under 25. Turo, has the age limit at 30 for high-value cars. You have to be 35 to run for president in many countries.... etc... There is obviously a sliding scale, but the 25-ish age range is more physical where your prefrontal cortex is still developing, while later stages are more experience based maturity. "Neuroscience has shown that a young person's cognitive development continues into this later stage and that their emotional maturity, self-image and judgement will be affected until the prefrontal cortex of the brain has fully developed. Alongside brain development, hormonal activity is also continuing well into the early twenties says Antrobus. "A number of children and young people I encounter between the age of 16 and 18, the flurry of hormonal activity in them is so great that to imagine that's going to settle down by the time they get to 18 really is a misconception," says Antrobus."
jowiar 9y ago
I don't really trust a 23yo software engineer either... Heaven knows my 23-year-old self wasn't worth a damn. And yet the Thiel's of the world fetishize them...
tomp 9y ago
> I wouldn't trust a 23yo lawyer or doctor You don't need to. After finishing their education, doctors and lawyers start working, but that work is largely training (i.e. further education) except that they're also earning money because they're already somewhat useful (not as useful as full-blown doctors and lawyers, but more useful than someone without equivalent education). In many countries in Europe, doctors need aditional 4-6 years of training before they can work without supervision and carry actual responsibilities... similar for lawyers, they need at least 2-3 years of work before they can pass the bar exam.
JamesBarney 9y ago
See I'm totally ok seeing a 23 yr old doctor. And if there were more 23yr old doctors then you'd be able to spend more time with your 35 yr old doctor because he wouldn't be busy with me.

ghaff 9y ago

Way back when, there was some limited experimentation in the US with 6-year combined college/MD programs. They still exist but very few are 6 year--and they're schools you've probably never heard of. My understanding is that part of the issue was that there was a general feeling that students benefited from the additional time even if it wasn't strictly necessary with respect to coursework.

heliostatic 9y ago

While I think your contention is valid in 2018, it's important to consider how much of this is culturally and historically contingent. Consider the ages of some key figures in the American Revolution in 1776 (https://kottke.org/13/08/the-surprising-ages-of-the-founding-fathers-on-july-4-1776 https://kottke.org/13/08/the-surprising-ages-of-the-founding...) Marquis de Lafayette, 18 James Monroe, 18 Gilbert Stuart, 20 Aaron Burr, 20 Alexander Hamilton, 21 Betsy Ross, 24 James Madison, 25

nailer 9y ago

> I wouldn't trust a 23yo lawyer or doctor, no matter how smart they appear. Some things are learned only by experience, and not just by books. I wouldn't trust a 26 year old or 40 year old newly graduated doctor either, for the same reasons.

jeffreyrogers 9y ago

This is a good point, but I don't think that means we should stick young people in schools while we wait for them to mature. It seems more useful to have them doing some sort of productive work, where they can start learning by experience.

PurpleBoxDragon 9y ago

What do we count as mature? There are different stages of brain development that don't finish until around 25 in women and 28 in men, but these aren't necessary to be mature. Even people who are 40 will make decisions that their 50 year old selves will view as immature. And given that much of what we consider maturity is driven by experience, delaying acquisition of experience until after maturation will result in further delaying maturation for the next generation.

ardit33 9y ago
Car companies have decided to be 25, as in many states you can't rent a car if you are under 25. Turo, has the age limit at 30 for high-value cars. You have to be 35 to run for president in many countries.... etc... There is obviously a sliding scale, but the 25-ish age range is more physical where your prefrontal cortex is still developing, while later stages are more experience based maturity. "Neuroscience has shown that a young person's cognitive development continues into this later stage and that their emotional maturity, self-image and judgement will be affected until the prefrontal cortex of the brain has fully developed. Alongside brain development, hormonal activity is also continuing well into the early twenties says Antrobus. "A number of children and young people I encounter between the age of 16 and 18, the flurry of hormonal activity in them is so great that to imagine that's going to settle down by the time they get to 18 really is a misconception," says Antrobus."

jowiar 9y ago

I don't really trust a 23yo software engineer either... Heaven knows my 23-year-old self wasn't worth a damn. And yet the Thiel's of the world fetishize them...

tomp 9y ago

> I wouldn't trust a 23yo lawyer or doctor You don't need to. After finishing their education, doctors and lawyers start working, but that work is largely training (i.e. further education) except that they're also earning money because they're already somewhat useful (not as useful as full-blown doctors and lawyers, but more useful than someone without equivalent education). In many countries in Europe, doctors need aditional 4-6 years of training before they can work without supervision and carry actual responsibilities... similar for lawyers, they need at least 2-3 years of work before they can pass the bar exam.

JamesBarney 9y ago

See I'm totally ok seeing a 23 yr old doctor. And if there were more 23yr old doctors then you'd be able to spend more time with your 35 yr old doctor because he wouldn't be busy with me.