4 ms·

I've never had a meal out in the UK (with different people, family, work, etc) where a tip wasn't left, unless possibly when service was really bad.

gambiting 9y ago
Sure, and I leave tips the vast majority of the time too - but I've had situations where I had no cash on me, the card machine didn't accept a tip, so I just left without feeling bad about it, it's not a big deal.
- JoeAltmaier 9y ago
  Not to you I guess. The server has only a very fixed opportunity to get tipped in a shift. To miss out on one is actually significant. Not to mention depressing.
  - gambiting 9y ago
    And what am I supposed to do about it? My point is - in US not tipping felt like being an absolute asshole, to a point where people would be upset - they grew up in a culture that values money above all else and not being tipped is I don't know, an equivalent of being spat in the face? In UK I've never felt that way. I've had perfectly good meals that I didn't tip on, just like I did in France, Spain or Germany and it never felt like the server expected a tip. They might be a bit disappointed that they didn't get one, but that's their problem. I'm disappointed about a lot of things but that doesn't mean I'm entitled to them.
    - JoeAltmaier 9y ago
      So its not up to you to enter a restaurant prepared to pay for the meal? You can do lots about it; in fact nobody else but you can do anything about it. I'd rant about "this generation is so entitled" but hey that post says it all.
      - semanticist 9y ago
        How do you even know the person you're replying to is of a different generation? I'm no millennial, but I've frequently not been able to leave a tip while paying for dinner in the UK because I've paid by card and had literally no cash on me. I've felt bad about not leaving a tip for good service, but I know that the servers will at lease make minimum wage before tips, unlike in the US. The whole point of this entire thread of discussion is about how people are switching to card-only payments in some areas and different/changing cultural norms, and while there could have been an interesting discussion about how this impacts other cultural norms like tipping, you instead just call someone an asshole like Grandpa Simpson yelling at a cloud.
        JoeAltmaier 9y ago
        The sub-topic was the idea that it 'wasn't my fault' that tipping got inconvenient and so they didn't do it. Lets not rewrite what was just posted. Rewriting a situation to feel better about oneself is symptomatic of the issue here. Everybody on HN is of a different generation than me. Not rocket science.
      - gambiting 9y ago
        >>So its not up to you to enter a restaurant prepared to pay for the meal? I have paid for the meal. At the end of my visit I was given a receipt and paid the indicated price - what else do you want? If the server is disappointed they didn't get a tip, then I think I know who is entitled in this relationship, and I have a very strong suspicion it's not me. >> in fact nobody else but you can do anything about it I pay my employees a good wage - so why can't the restaurant owner do the same? It's not up to me to make sure that a waiter is satisfied with their job - it's their employers problem, just like I have to take care of my own employees.
        JoeAltmaier 9y ago
        There it is - the deliberate explaining away of personal responsibility to make oneself feel better. The last comment gives away how we all know the first is false. The restaurant owner in America does not pay a good wage, because tipping is a thing and the market adjusted. Not tipping for service is victimizing the least powerful person in the relationship. And the need to make it 'ok' is self-serving doubletalk. A famous dude said "I will judge you by how you treat the least powerful person in the room"
    - tssva 9y ago
      The reaction in the US isn't based upon some cultural obsession with money. Wait staff in the US is paid differently than in other countries. Wait staff in the US is largely paid the minimum hourly rate for tipped employees which is $2.13 an hour. It is expected that the majority of their income will be earned through tips.
      - wl 9y ago
        There are many states where tipped employees earn the same minimum wage as non-tipped employees. The social expectation remains the same in those places.
        jandrese 9y ago
        For reference: https://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm https://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm Employers are supposed to make up the difference if the total with tips falls below minimum wage, but I don't think enforcement on that is very strict.
      - wmertens 9y ago
        It still doesn't explain why the tip has to be a percentage. Makes no sense.
  - stordoff 9y ago
    I have family who work in food service in the UK. Tips are NOT expected, nor is significant/depressing to miss one. It's common, but certainly not mandatory or "victimizing the least powerful person in the relationship".

gambiting 9y ago

Sure, and I leave tips the vast majority of the time too - but I've had situations where I had no cash on me, the card machine didn't accept a tip, so I just left without feeling bad about it, it's not a big deal.

JoeAltmaier 9y ago
Not to you I guess. The server has only a very fixed opportunity to get tipped in a shift. To miss out on one is actually significant. Not to mention depressing.
- gambiting 9y ago
  And what am I supposed to do about it? My point is - in US not tipping felt like being an absolute asshole, to a point where people would be upset - they grew up in a culture that values money above all else and not being tipped is I don't know, an equivalent of being spat in the face? In UK I've never felt that way. I've had perfectly good meals that I didn't tip on, just like I did in France, Spain or Germany and it never felt like the server expected a tip. They might be a bit disappointed that they didn't get one, but that's their problem. I'm disappointed about a lot of things but that doesn't mean I'm entitled to them.
  - JoeAltmaier 9y ago
    So its not up to you to enter a restaurant prepared to pay for the meal? You can do lots about it; in fact nobody else but you can do anything about it. I'd rant about "this generation is so entitled" but hey that post says it all.
    - semanticist 9y ago
      How do you even know the person you're replying to is of a different generation? I'm no millennial, but I've frequently not been able to leave a tip while paying for dinner in the UK because I've paid by card and had literally no cash on me. I've felt bad about not leaving a tip for good service, but I know that the servers will at lease make minimum wage before tips, unlike in the US. The whole point of this entire thread of discussion is about how people are switching to card-only payments in some areas and different/changing cultural norms, and while there could have been an interesting discussion about how this impacts other cultural norms like tipping, you instead just call someone an asshole like Grandpa Simpson yelling at a cloud.
      - JoeAltmaier 9y ago
        The sub-topic was the idea that it 'wasn't my fault' that tipping got inconvenient and so they didn't do it. Lets not rewrite what was just posted. Rewriting a situation to feel better about oneself is symptomatic of the issue here. Everybody on HN is of a different generation than me. Not rocket science.
    - gambiting 9y ago
      >>So its not up to you to enter a restaurant prepared to pay for the meal? I have paid for the meal. At the end of my visit I was given a receipt and paid the indicated price - what else do you want? If the server is disappointed they didn't get a tip, then I think I know who is entitled in this relationship, and I have a very strong suspicion it's not me. >> in fact nobody else but you can do anything about it I pay my employees a good wage - so why can't the restaurant owner do the same? It's not up to me to make sure that a waiter is satisfied with their job - it's their employers problem, just like I have to take care of my own employees.
      - JoeAltmaier 9y ago
        There it is - the deliberate explaining away of personal responsibility to make oneself feel better. The last comment gives away how we all know the first is false. The restaurant owner in America does not pay a good wage, because tipping is a thing and the market adjusted. Not tipping for service is victimizing the least powerful person in the relationship. And the need to make it 'ok' is self-serving doubletalk. A famous dude said "I will judge you by how you treat the least powerful person in the room"
  - tssva 9y ago
    The reaction in the US isn't based upon some cultural obsession with money. Wait staff in the US is paid differently than in other countries. Wait staff in the US is largely paid the minimum hourly rate for tipped employees which is $2.13 an hour. It is expected that the majority of their income will be earned through tips.
    - wl 9y ago
      There are many states where tipped employees earn the same minimum wage as non-tipped employees. The social expectation remains the same in those places.
      - jandrese 9y ago
        For reference: https://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm https://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm Employers are supposed to make up the difference if the total with tips falls below minimum wage, but I don't think enforcement on that is very strict.
    - wmertens 9y ago
      It still doesn't explain why the tip has to be a percentage. Makes no sense.
- stordoff 9y ago
  I have family who work in food service in the UK. Tips are NOT expected, nor is significant/depressing to miss one. It's common, but certainly not mandatory or "victimizing the least powerful person in the relationship".