5 ms·

I think there are good points here - but the fact remains that it is impossible to send every "qualified" candidate to a top school. What can we do to make not

I think there are good points here - but the fact remains that it is impossible to send every "qualified" candidate to a top school. What can we do to make not going to a top school less disadvantageous?

wu-ikkyu 9y ago
>What can we do to make not going to a top school less disadvantageous? Begin promoting and honoring good MOOC programs.
forgottenpass 9y ago
>What can we do to make not going to a top school less disadvantageous? Don't have a ludicrous hiring process. Employers get high on their own hype supply and start believing that because they can afford to be selective, and have a trendy enough name, that the selectivity is warranted. It might be good for an external image. But frankly, if the position can be hired directly out of college, they don't need someone from a prestigious school.
eli_gottlieb 9y ago
Make the top schools open up more seats, be they public or private.
- bilbo0s 9y ago
  That's not a pragmatic solution though. Where will the top schools find more "top" professors to teach and mentor all those new students? There are some legitimate logistical realities that constrict the size of top schools. I'm not sure they can be made any larger without compromising educational quality.
  - tdb7893 9y ago
    A lot of the flagship public universities give a very good education even with huge sizes and with academia overflowing with more PhDs than it knows what to do with you probably could find enough professors of whatever quality you want if you are one of the top institutions.
  - eli_gottlieb 9y ago
    >Where will the top schools find more "top" professors to teach and mentor all those new students? A shortage of smart, ambitious PhDs seeking policy positions is, fortunately, not a problem our society has. Quite the contrary.
    - bilbo0s 9y ago
      But a shortage of ACCOMPLISHED PhD's seeking policy positions, IS, unfortunately, a problem our society has. You're dealing with a situation where the PhD, in and of itself, is not really much of an accomplishment.
      - eli_gottlieb 9y ago
        I think it's kinda bullshit to claim that most PhDs are bullshit.
        bilbo0s 9y ago
        Not what I said. What I said was that when one is in the situation of selecting a professor to be hired at an Ivy, the PhD in and of itself, is not really an accomplishment. It's more akin to an "entrance fee".
scrumper 9y ago
When you are in the position to do so, hire people with unconventional backgrounds. Prefer the un-credentialed person with promise who had to drop out of university because they had a kid; take the rough diamonds; ignore the degree and look at the experience or side projects or life story. How? Demand a cover letter with every application. Weight that massively higher than the resume. In interviews, select overwhelmingly for raw intelligence and grit - look for a spark in the conversation; go off the track a bit and ask about broader implications of some thing you're working on; probe for resilience and determination in overcoming problems. Then, keep in mind the composition of your entire team when hiring. Try to build a heterogeneous group with a variety of skills and experience. You could use a few top-school people for sure; they have great polish and poise and facility with words (usually) and those attributes are useful in representing your company to others. By far the easiest way to let this happen is to have a very wide default accept at the resume review stage. Point is, no one person is in a position to make that broad systemic change. Make some changes in your particular corner of the world and, over time, it'll spread. EDIT: sorry, I think this should have gone under forgottenpass's succinct reply which is saying the same thing.
g_delgado14 9y ago
Make the alternatives just as good. This is obviously a very idealistic thing to say, but I do stand by it. In the field of Computer Science this is a very relevant statement. You don't need to go to a good CS school to get a job at Google anymore. It's a matter of doing this across all disciplines, though. Not just CS.

wu-ikkyu 9y ago

>What can we do to make not going to a top school less disadvantageous? Begin promoting and honoring good MOOC programs.

forgottenpass 9y ago

>What can we do to make not going to a top school less disadvantageous? Don't have a ludicrous hiring process. Employers get high on their own hype supply and start believing that because they can afford to be selective, and have a trendy enough name, that the selectivity is warranted. It might be good for an external image. But frankly, if the position can be hired directly out of college, they don't need someone from a prestigious school.

eli_gottlieb 9y ago

Make the top schools open up more seats, be they public or private.

bilbo0s 9y ago
That's not a pragmatic solution though. Where will the top schools find more "top" professors to teach and mentor all those new students? There are some legitimate logistical realities that constrict the size of top schools. I'm not sure they can be made any larger without compromising educational quality.
- tdb7893 9y ago
  A lot of the flagship public universities give a very good education even with huge sizes and with academia overflowing with more PhDs than it knows what to do with you probably could find enough professors of whatever quality you want if you are one of the top institutions.
- eli_gottlieb 9y ago
  >Where will the top schools find more "top" professors to teach and mentor all those new students? A shortage of smart, ambitious PhDs seeking policy positions is, fortunately, not a problem our society has. Quite the contrary.
  - bilbo0s 9y ago
    But a shortage of ACCOMPLISHED PhD's seeking policy positions, IS, unfortunately, a problem our society has. You're dealing with a situation where the PhD, in and of itself, is not really much of an accomplishment.
    - eli_gottlieb 9y ago
      I think it's kinda bullshit to claim that most PhDs are bullshit.
      - bilbo0s 9y ago
        Not what I said. What I said was that when one is in the situation of selecting a professor to be hired at an Ivy, the PhD in and of itself, is not really an accomplishment. It's more akin to an "entrance fee".

scrumper 9y ago

When you are in the position to do so, hire people with unconventional backgrounds. Prefer the un-credentialed person with promise who had to drop out of university because they had a kid; take the rough diamonds; ignore the degree and look at the experience or side projects or life story. How? Demand a cover letter with every application. Weight that massively higher than the resume. In interviews, select overwhelmingly for raw intelligence and grit - look for a spark in the conversation; go off the track a bit and ask about broader implications of some thing you're working on; probe for resilience and determination in overcoming problems. Then, keep in mind the composition of your entire team when hiring. Try to build a heterogeneous group with a variety of skills and experience. You could use a few top-school people for sure; they have great polish and poise and facility with words (usually) and those attributes are useful in representing your company to others. By far the easiest way to let this happen is to have a very wide default accept at the resume review stage. Point is, no one person is in a position to make that broad systemic change. Make some changes in your particular corner of the world and, over time, it'll spread. EDIT: sorry, I think this should have gone under forgottenpass's succinct reply which is saying the same thing.

g_delgado14 9y ago

Make the alternatives just as good. This is obviously a very idealistic thing to say, but I do stand by it. In the field of Computer Science this is a very relevant statement. You don't need to go to a good CS school to get a job at Google anymore. It's a matter of doing this across all disciplines, though. Not just CS.