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Oh this again. There's no indication the Vikings ever used sunstones in navigation, but they _could_ have done (in a very theoretical sense, because I know of
by Luc 9y ago
Oh this again.
There's no indication the Vikings ever used sunstones in navigation, but they _could_ have done (in a very theoretical sense, because I know of no one who used it effectively in actual navigation), so the idea gets trotted out about yearly, because it's fun alternative history.
- Grustaf 9y agoHow do you mean? It has been claimed since at least the 13th century that Vikings used these magic sunstones, now (2013) they even have examples of working sunstones from Viking ship remains. How is this theoretical?
- Luc 9y agoI think you're confusing with the calcite found on the 16th century British warship. The article mentions: "None have ever been found at Viking archaeological sites, but a calcite crystal was discovered in the wreck of a British warship from the 1500s, indicating it might have been a tool known to advanced ocean navigators." ... but this is wild conjecture at best. None of the written sources of that time (or, in fact, later) mention the use of calcite for navigation.
- bcraven 9y agohttps://phys.org/news/2016-07-experimentation-vikings-sunstone.html https://phys.org/news/2016-07-experimentation-vikings-sunsto... "Some historical evidence such as Icelandic legends have mentioned travel under snowy skies using sunstones and a study of a Viking wreck conducted in 2002 revealed that a crystal (Icelandic spar) had been onboard that was found near other implements used for navigation."
- TheSpiceIsLife 9y agoMy alternative explanation for this sort of thing is always something like: Maybe the navigator was a hipppie and had crystals and bird feathers on her/his dashboard, probably a mini dream catcher hanging from the rear vision mirror. I think it’s a plausible explanation for a lot of things. Imagine future archeologists unearthing a car found in s remote location and trying to explain the crystals and bird feathers and dream catchers. Are we supposed to believe that no one had trinkets back then. I imagine this is one of those scenarios where people well versed in the field of archeology do an eye-roll when they read a news article pertaining to their expertise. What’s the term for that?
- OscarCunningham 9y agoThe term is "Gell-Mann Amnesia". More specifically it refers to rolling your eyes as you read an article about your domain of expertise, and then turning the page and assuming the other articles aren't also garbage.
- TheSpiceIsLife 9y agoThat’s the one, thanks.
- barking 9y agoAnother variant of this is the type of 'shock' opinion columnist who at least once a week criticises some interest/business sector/profession and has all the answers. It's only when he hits on yours that you realise how maddeningly clueless he is
- Aardwolf 9y agoOh that must be like a computer professional cringing at a "computer hacking" scene in a movie, but after that having no issues with a (possibly just as cringy to those from such fields) scene in an E.R. room, or a scene with a police investigation, etc...
- Grustaf 9y ago
- Panoramix 9y agoThis is exactly what the article details. What is your point?
- Luc 9y agoI, too, wonder at times why I even bother posting anything here.
- berg01 9y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunstone_(medieval)#Sources https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunstone_(medieval)#Sources "One medieval source in Iceland, "Rauðúlfs þáttr", mentions the sunstone as a mineral by means of which the sun could be located in an overcast and snowy sky by holding it up and noting where it emitted, reflected or transmitted light (hvar geislaði úr honum). Sunstones are also mentioned in Hrafns saga Sveinbjarnarsonar (13th century) and in church and monastic inventories (14th–15th century) without discussing their attributes. The sunstone texts of Hrafns saga Sveinbjarnarsonar were copied to all four versions of the medieval hagiography Guðmundar saga góða." Perhaps you are making the statement that possession and understanding of such a mineral's capabilities is not definitive proof of them actually using to for navigation? I suppose strictly speaking that is true, but the leap of imagination is very, very tiny. So what are you actually saying and why?
- Luc 9y ago> So what are you actually saying and why? Oooh, maybe I'm part of a sinister conspiracy to bring disrepute to Scandinavian history. No, I mean simply what I say: there is no proof for this conjecture (it's certainly not worth calling a 'theory') that sunstones were used by Vikings in navigation. Yet it keeps coming back. Every time I spend some time pushing back, but I'm getting weary of it, and perhaps I should let people believe in their crystals... As to the 'very very tiny leap of imagination', I am afraid I have to disagree. Look into something like the Bris Sextant if you want to learn more about a real, actually useful, simple device that can be used for navigation. It's fiddly as hell yet still way more practical than optical calcite.
- berg01 9y ago> Every time I spend some time pushing back Eh... You realize HN is not really the primary forum for this kind of debate? > and perhaps I should let people believe in their crystals... Oh, you're just a crank. Edit: And then after I refreshed you added an actual comment regarding the "leap of imagination" with a vague but distinctly condescending comment about something else.
- 9y ago
- watwut 9y agoI have seen real historians doing the same argument as thus comment here. I don't think downvoting it so much is fair.