4 ms·

Apple isn't blocking contributions, they just don't care about them anymore since they're going with LLVM/Clang. And since they don't care they don't have the l

by avar 16y ago

Apple isn't blocking contributions, they just don't care about them anymore since they're going with LLVM/Clang. And since they don't care they don't have the legal framework in place anymore to do copyright assignments. The FSF could have these changes if they wanted if they didn't require copyright assignment. Personally I don't contribute to FSF projects because copyright assignments are a PITA. I can see how a company that doesn't need to contribute to GCC anymore just doesn't care enough to initiate the requisite legal work.

tjr 16y ago
What part of the copyright assignment process do you find bothersome?
- avar 16y ago
  I've contributed many thousands of lines of code to free software projects, but I've never had to sign some waiver, walk down to the post office and send an inter-continental letter in the mail to go along with a patch I wrote. I'd had have to do that if I submitted a non-trivial change to the FSF, just finding an alternative program that I can use and fix is easier, so I've done that instead of sending patches to them.
- pieter 16y ago
  Compare a normal workflow, like submitting a bug to Git: * Commit your bugfix * 'git send-email --to=git@vger.kernel.org -1' With the GNU model: * Commit your bugfix / make a patch * Send your patch to the maintainer of the project * The maintainer has to look in a central file if you already assigned copyright to the FSF * If not, they send you an email 'would you be willing to do this' * You reply, "sure, send me the form" * They send you this: https://gforge.inria.fr/scm/viewvc.php/misc/www/request-disclaim.changes?view=markup&root=mpfr https://gforge.inria.fr/scm/viewvc.php/misc/www/request-disc... * You fill in the form, and thus hand over your snail mail address to the maintainer and the FSF * They send you another form (snail mail!) * You fill it in and send it back (snail mail!) * They receive your form and add it to the list * Your bugfix is now allowed to go into the GNU repository
  - asdfghjkjnmhb 16y ago
    You forgot the bit where if you work for a company you need to get approval from 18levels of management and corporate lawyers on 3 continents who have never heard of free software - and you are on the receiving end of the political flak. Or if you work for a US company and are writing FOSS on your own time - you still risk getting fired because one of the managers or lawyers (who have never heard of FOSS) think it breaks your employment contract and it's a cheap way of reducing head count.
    - SoftwareMaven 16y ago
      Has this ever really happened? This sounds more like apocryphal legends meant to scare young developers about that big, bad manager in the closet.
      - asdfghjkjnmhb 16y ago
        Being fired - don't know. But if you are a minion at, say MSFT, imagine how many layers of management a sign-off would go up before somebody said - yes you can assign copyright to that little utility to Gnu.
      - uxp 16y ago
        I personally know of two people from one company that were fired for contributing a patch to a popular open sourced IDE that the company used for development, of which the bug hampered the development for the company. It was a strongarmed political move for management to retain control over the personal actions of their employees. This is all anecdotal anyways. I doubt it happens all the time, but these two were forced to sign an NDA on their way out. It makes me wonder how many times it does happen where no one is allowed to talk about it.
        tjr 16y ago
        Do you know if, in this case, they worked on the patch on company time, or on their own time?
  - 16y ago
- steveklabnik 16y ago
  Sending physical mail seems really odd to me by now. I haven't turned on autopayment for half of my student loans because they require me to fill out a form and mail them in. It's such a hassle; I have to find time during the day to go purchase a single envelope and a single stamp, fill out the form, and then go drop it off. So much effort.
  - nkassis 16y ago
    I'm sadden to say that I'm in the same boat as you. Too lazy to go to the post office, I just login to the website and do a manual payment for my loans. I think, I'm going to just do it now that I realize how pathetic it is.
    - uxp 16y ago
      Not to derail this too much, but I still pay most all of my bills by check and snail-mail envelope. Until some companies stop charging a "convenience fee" that is more than the cost of a stamp and 1 minute of my time per month, of which I'm probably severely underestimating its worth, I'll continue to do so.

by avar 16y ago

tjr 16y ago

What part of the copyright assignment process do you find bothersome?

avar 16y ago
I've contributed many thousands of lines of code to free software projects, but I've never had to sign some waiver, walk down to the post office and send an inter-continental letter in the mail to go along with a patch I wrote. I'd had have to do that if I submitted a non-trivial change to the FSF, just finding an alternative program that I can use and fix is easier, so I've done that instead of sending patches to them.
pieter 16y ago
Compare a normal workflow, like submitting a bug to Git: * Commit your bugfix * 'git send-email --to=git@vger.kernel.org -1' With the GNU model: * Commit your bugfix / make a patch * Send your patch to the maintainer of the project * The maintainer has to look in a central file if you already assigned copyright to the FSF * If not, they send you an email 'would you be willing to do this' * You reply, "sure, send me the form" * They send you this: https://gforge.inria.fr/scm/viewvc.php/misc/www/request-disclaim.changes?view=markup&root=mpfr https://gforge.inria.fr/scm/viewvc.php/misc/www/request-disc... * You fill in the form, and thus hand over your snail mail address to the maintainer and the FSF * They send you another form (snail mail!) * You fill it in and send it back (snail mail!) * They receive your form and add it to the list * Your bugfix is now allowed to go into the GNU repository
- asdfghjkjnmhb 16y ago
  You forgot the bit where if you work for a company you need to get approval from 18levels of management and corporate lawyers on 3 continents who have never heard of free software - and you are on the receiving end of the political flak. Or if you work for a US company and are writing FOSS on your own time - you still risk getting fired because one of the managers or lawyers (who have never heard of FOSS) think it breaks your employment contract and it's a cheap way of reducing head count.
  - SoftwareMaven 16y ago
    Has this ever really happened? This sounds more like apocryphal legends meant to scare young developers about that big, bad manager in the closet.
    - asdfghjkjnmhb 16y ago
      Being fired - don't know. But if you are a minion at, say MSFT, imagine how many layers of management a sign-off would go up before somebody said - yes you can assign copyright to that little utility to Gnu.
    - uxp 16y ago
      I personally know of two people from one company that were fired for contributing a patch to a popular open sourced IDE that the company used for development, of which the bug hampered the development for the company. It was a strongarmed political move for management to retain control over the personal actions of their employees. This is all anecdotal anyways. I doubt it happens all the time, but these two were forced to sign an NDA on their way out. It makes me wonder how many times it does happen where no one is allowed to talk about it.
      - tjr 16y ago
        Do you know if, in this case, they worked on the patch on company time, or on their own time?
- 16y ago
steveklabnik 16y ago
Sending physical mail seems really odd to me by now. I haven't turned on autopayment for half of my student loans because they require me to fill out a form and mail them in. It's such a hassle; I have to find time during the day to go purchase a single envelope and a single stamp, fill out the form, and then go drop it off. So much effort.
- nkassis 16y ago
  I'm sadden to say that I'm in the same boat as you. Too lazy to go to the post office, I just login to the website and do a manual payment for my loans. I think, I'm going to just do it now that I realize how pathetic it is.
  - uxp 16y ago
    Not to derail this too much, but I still pay most all of my bills by check and snail-mail envelope. Until some companies stop charging a "convenience fee" that is more than the cost of a stamp and 1 minute of my time per month, of which I'm probably severely underestimating its worth, I'll continue to do so.