4 ms·

It might be faster if it works. If you try it and it doesn’t work and the cashier tries to help and then you have to go back to using a credit card anyway, it’s

It might be faster if it works. If you try it and it doesn’t work and the cashier tries to help and then you have to go back to using a credit card anyway, it’s slow and people get annoyed. If that reliably didn’t happen, things would be fine. Unfortunately, payment processing in the US (or at least in Maryland where I live) is a mess: - Point-of-sale devices are frequently broken, with post-it notes taped over the chip slot saying “CHIP READER DISABLED”. I’ve dealt with buggy readers that force you to swipe, then go “Oh that’s a chip card, insert it!”, then when you insert it they go “Chip not supported, reverting to swipe as a backup method”. We’re struggling enough with the basics. - I’ve seen stores that put a “We accept ApplePay” sign in their window, but when you go in, it’s a gamble as to whether all the dependencies from the reader to the network to the payment processors are working today. When I’ve asked cashiers, their responses range from a despondent “I just don’t know anymore” to a cautious “We have it but I haven’t seen anyone use it in a while.” - Complicating all of this is the fact that all of the POS devices in my area look identical, whether they support NFC payments or not. I have a hunch that the hardware vendor just ships NFC-capable units to everyone, but only turns them on in certain conditions (maybe related to the type of contract the merchant has?) If anyone has plumbed the depths of this issue and can explain what’s going on, I’d appreciate it.

imroot 9y ago
As for the POS devices looking identical: I've worked for a large retailer who has purchased a sizable number of verifone devices (hundreds of thousands). The devices do have NFC-enabled readers in them to support Apple Pay, however, the contract that the retailer has with Verifone specifically says that Apple Pay is disabled: The retailer does not want to pay for the development cost for enabling Apple Pay in their Point of Sales stack. It's a great add-on for Verifone: A couple of bits get flipped in fipay and in their backend and boom: Apple Pay (as long as the payment processors support it).
astura 9y ago
The most bizarre one is at a Subway I go to once in a while: they have signs all over saying they accept Android Pay, but when I go to use it the phone vibrates like it worked but the terminal replies "insert chip," or maybe it's "chip required." The cashiers claim it works for other people though. I tried it several times over a year just to see if it was a one-off error, but it always did the same. I really like Android Pay/mobile payments when they work, the only problem is, I stopped really using it because the success rate is so low. The card readers seem like they aren't that strong, have difficulty sensing the phone, and when it does sense it there seems like a lot of weirdness/try agains. I tried to use it once at a vending machine and I just couldn't figure the thing out, the payment went through but when I selected something nothing happened. Credit card worked fine though. It was so unimportant when I got a new phone I ended up getting one without NFC. Oh, I'm pretty sure the “CHIP READER DISABLED” thing is just the merchant didn't set up their account with chip enabled, not any problem with the hardware itself.
- leesalminen 9y ago
  > I'm pretty sure the “CHIP READER DISABLED” thing is just the merchant didn't set up their account with chip enabled. It’s generally the fault of the POS software. In many (most?) cases, enabling EMV on the terminal requires the use of a new API. The POS software has to write code to support EMV.
- fps 9y ago
  your cards themselves can disallow contactless payment when a chip reader is present. Discover did this to me when they sent me a chip card - I had been using my discover card contactless for a while with android pay, and all of a sudden it stopped working on all new terminals and started saying "insert chip", assuming the terminal had a chip reader in it. I switched to using my visa card with google pay and it continues to work mostly everywhere, even though I have a chip in my visa card as well. I find I only use google pay when I'm not in a hurry or when I'm very familiar with the specific reader and it has a long track record of working. If I go somewhere new, I always use my card unless I have time and the store isn't busy.
ghaff 9y ago
Exactly. If I'm in the grocery store, I know that I can take my credit card out of my wallet, insert it into the machine (or swipe it), maybe scrawl a wiggly line, and remove the card all in about 10 seconds. Alternatively, I can fiddle with my phone, get it to recognize me, hope it works, etc. which--even if it doesn't always take longer--is certainly less deterministic while the person behind me is probably going through their own version of the internal sigh I have when the person in front of me is fiddling with some non-routine payment method. About the only time I use Apple Pay is when I'm traveling to Europe because it tends to work faster than when I have to do the non-standard (for there) chip and signature.
- Nursie 9y ago
  > Alternatively, I can fiddle with my phone, get it to recognize me, hope it works, etc. which--even if it doesn't always take longer--is certainly less deterministic while the person behind me is probably going through their own version of the internal sigh I have when the person in front of me is fiddling with some non-routine payment method. I don't recognise this at all. Pull phone out of pocket, touch the fingerprint reader to unlock it, wave it at the reader. Done. That's quicker than getting my card out of my wallet, let alone swiping and then signing something.
  - ryandrake 9y ago
    Pull phone out of pocket, touch the reader, nothing happens. Theory 1: I’m not touching the reader in the right place. Maybe the sensor is on this side or that. Try hovering the phone all over the POS box. Theory 2: Maybe my phone is not working. Try waving it around again while cashier has this “get your shit together” look on his face. Pull out CC. Theory 3: The reader supports NFC but not ApplePay, so now I’ve wasted my time. Pull out CC. Theory 4: Its not even a NFC reader (because there seems to be no standard way of telling by just looking at them). So, now I’ve wasted my time. Pull out CC.
    - ghaff 9y ago
      Or the arbitrary transaction limit is set to less than the amount I owe. At least domestically, I find credit cards almost always straightforward while Apple Pay is hit or miss having the line behind me giving me dirty looks because the entitled tech shit is holding up checkout playing with their gadget.

imroot 9y ago

As for the POS devices looking identical: I've worked for a large retailer who has purchased a sizable number of verifone devices (hundreds of thousands). The devices do have NFC-enabled readers in them to support Apple Pay, however, the contract that the retailer has with Verifone specifically says that Apple Pay is disabled: The retailer does not want to pay for the development cost for enabling Apple Pay in their Point of Sales stack. It's a great add-on for Verifone: A couple of bits get flipped in fipay and in their backend and boom: Apple Pay (as long as the payment processors support it).

astura 9y ago

The most bizarre one is at a Subway I go to once in a while: they have signs all over saying they accept Android Pay, but when I go to use it the phone vibrates like it worked but the terminal replies "insert chip," or maybe it's "chip required." The cashiers claim it works for other people though. I tried it several times over a year just to see if it was a one-off error, but it always did the same. I really like Android Pay/mobile payments when they work, the only problem is, I stopped really using it because the success rate is so low. The card readers seem like they aren't that strong, have difficulty sensing the phone, and when it does sense it there seems like a lot of weirdness/try agains. I tried to use it once at a vending machine and I just couldn't figure the thing out, the payment went through but when I selected something nothing happened. Credit card worked fine though. It was so unimportant when I got a new phone I ended up getting one without NFC. Oh, I'm pretty sure the “CHIP READER DISABLED” thing is just the merchant didn't set up their account with chip enabled, not any problem with the hardware itself.

leesalminen 9y ago
> I'm pretty sure the “CHIP READER DISABLED” thing is just the merchant didn't set up their account with chip enabled. It’s generally the fault of the POS software. In many (most?) cases, enabling EMV on the terminal requires the use of a new API. The POS software has to write code to support EMV.
fps 9y ago
your cards themselves can disallow contactless payment when a chip reader is present. Discover did this to me when they sent me a chip card - I had been using my discover card contactless for a while with android pay, and all of a sudden it stopped working on all new terminals and started saying "insert chip", assuming the terminal had a chip reader in it. I switched to using my visa card with google pay and it continues to work mostly everywhere, even though I have a chip in my visa card as well. I find I only use google pay when I'm not in a hurry or when I'm very familiar with the specific reader and it has a long track record of working. If I go somewhere new, I always use my card unless I have time and the store isn't busy.

ghaff 9y ago

Exactly. If I'm in the grocery store, I know that I can take my credit card out of my wallet, insert it into the machine (or swipe it), maybe scrawl a wiggly line, and remove the card all in about 10 seconds. Alternatively, I can fiddle with my phone, get it to recognize me, hope it works, etc. which--even if it doesn't always take longer--is certainly less deterministic while the person behind me is probably going through their own version of the internal sigh I have when the person in front of me is fiddling with some non-routine payment method. About the only time I use Apple Pay is when I'm traveling to Europe because it tends to work faster than when I have to do the non-standard (for there) chip and signature.

Nursie 9y ago
> Alternatively, I can fiddle with my phone, get it to recognize me, hope it works, etc. which--even if it doesn't always take longer--is certainly less deterministic while the person behind me is probably going through their own version of the internal sigh I have when the person in front of me is fiddling with some non-routine payment method. I don't recognise this at all. Pull phone out of pocket, touch the fingerprint reader to unlock it, wave it at the reader. Done. That's quicker than getting my card out of my wallet, let alone swiping and then signing something.
- ryandrake 9y ago
  Pull phone out of pocket, touch the reader, nothing happens. Theory 1: I’m not touching the reader in the right place. Maybe the sensor is on this side or that. Try hovering the phone all over the POS box. Theory 2: Maybe my phone is not working. Try waving it around again while cashier has this “get your shit together” look on his face. Pull out CC. Theory 3: The reader supports NFC but not ApplePay, so now I’ve wasted my time. Pull out CC. Theory 4: Its not even a NFC reader (because there seems to be no standard way of telling by just looking at them). So, now I’ve wasted my time. Pull out CC.
  - ghaff 9y ago
    Or the arbitrary transaction limit is set to less than the amount I owe. At least domestically, I find credit cards almost always straightforward while Apple Pay is hit or miss having the line behind me giving me dirty looks because the entitled tech shit is holding up checkout playing with their gadget.