6 ms·

It's especially a mystery because even developments in payments from the US (eg Apple Pay) seem more widely adopted where I am (Aus) than in the US. Anyone wit

by anitil 9y ago

It's especially a mystery because even developments in payments from the US (eg Apple Pay) seem more widely adopted where I am (Aus) than in the US. Anyone with some insight as to why want to chip in?

vaughanb 9y ago
> ... chip in Unintentional pun. The US public seems to have a huge reluctance to use the chips in the cards too. It's swipe and sign. (I'm also from Australia and signing for a credit card purchase went away decades ago. PayWave is really popular, my 89 yo mother loves it.)
- kibwen 9y ago
  US here, got issued a chipped card about a year ago and noticed quickly that any attempt to swipe with my card would be greeted with an error message and instructions to insert the chip. For all systems I've seen, it seems that if the merchant accepts chips and if the card has a chip, the chip must be used, regardless of any user reluctance.
  - bradknowles 9y ago
    If it’s a chip card and the vendor doesn’t use the chip, then they are responsible for all fraudulent transactions. If they do use the chip, then the card issuing bank is responsible for all fraudulent transactions. This rule was supposed to go into place over a year ago. But most places couldn’t be bothered to update their equipment, so it had to be postponed. Even now, many places still can’t be bothered. Makes me care about them just that much less.
  - 220V_USKettle 9y ago
    Most readers I have experimented with in the US will allow a swipe after 3 unsuccesful chip reads (inserting card in opposite direction w/ chip exposed).
- anitil 9y ago
  Haha you got me!
- bigger_cheese 9y ago
  Also Australian used to using Paywave. I traveled through Europe in January. My card was accepted without issue in most countries. There were a few countries like Greece where I need to use Pin. Outlier was in the UK where I had to sign and show photo id, which I found strange.
  - Sean1708 9y ago
    > Outlier was in the UK where I had to sign and show photo id How long ago was this? Signatures haven't been a thing here for well over a decade. Also is Paywave just contactless? Because we've also had contactless for a fair while.
    - bigger_cheese 9y ago
      January this year, had to sign twice once at a Restaurant near Earl's Court and once buying tickets for Tower of London.
- chrismorgan 9y ago
  When I visited the US in late 2014, most places didn’t support contactless payments; a few did, but the operators didn’t necessarily know it, because basically no US cards supported it. I really confused a Subway employee near San Francisco by using it, and stopped to explain how it was that the transaction had gone through without him noticing.
- RandallBrown 9y ago
  Most chip readers in the US are incredibly slow. Like 10+ seconds just top read the card. There are faster authentication schemes that some of the readers use, but it's rare that using the chip is very fast, while swiping is always instant.
smelendez 9y ago
In the US, the biggest adopters of Apple Pay have been big chain grocery, drug, convenience, etc. stores. For decades, there has been a (somewhat class-based) stigma about holding up the line in these kinds of places by paying with check, government benefits, coins, coupons, or anything else besides cash and credit. There's also a separate, arguably more deserved stigma about entitled people causing trouble by using unnecessary technology. These together, along with a reluctance to cause trouble for low-wage clerks, make people reluctant to risk holding up the line by using Apple Pay. That means fewer people even try Apple Pay, so fewer other businesses see the need to make it available.
- anitil 9y ago
  It's not without problems in Aus as well - Only 1 out of our 'Big Four' banks actually accepts it. I suppose it's a bad example. However 'Tap and go' is so widely adopted that I haven't carried cash in months and I know people that legitimately don't know their own PIN
  - ajdlinux 9y ago
    Contactless payment is so widely adopted that it's given me no particular reason to use Google Pay or any other mobile payment system as they're not particularly better from just using my card...
- jghn 9y ago
  What? In my experience Apple Pay is faster than other payment methods. In what way do you see it as slower?
  - Uehreka 9y ago
    It might be faster if it works. If you try it and it doesn’t work and the cashier tries to help and then you have to go back to using a credit card anyway, it’s slow and people get annoyed. If that reliably didn’t happen, things would be fine. Unfortunately, payment processing in the US (or at least in Maryland where I live) is a mess: - Point-of-sale devices are frequently broken, with post-it notes taped over the chip slot saying “CHIP READER DISABLED”. I’ve dealt with buggy readers that force you to swipe, then go “Oh that’s a chip card, insert it!”, then when you insert it they go “Chip not supported, reverting to swipe as a backup method”. We’re struggling enough with the basics. - I’ve seen stores that put a “We accept ApplePay” sign in their window, but when you go in, it’s a gamble as to whether all the dependencies from the reader to the network to the payment processors are working today. When I’ve asked cashiers, their responses range from a despondent “I just don’t know anymore” to a cautious “We have it but I haven’t seen anyone use it in a while.” - Complicating all of this is the fact that all of the POS devices in my area look identical, whether they support NFC payments or not. I have a hunch that the hardware vendor just ships NFC-capable units to everyone, but only turns them on in certain conditions (maybe related to the type of contract the merchant has?) If anyone has plumbed the depths of this issue and can explain what’s going on, I’d appreciate it.

by anitil 9y ago

vaughanb 9y ago

> ... chip in Unintentional pun. The US public seems to have a huge reluctance to use the chips in the cards too. It's swipe and sign. (I'm also from Australia and signing for a credit card purchase went away decades ago. PayWave is really popular, my 89 yo mother loves it.)

kibwen 9y ago
US here, got issued a chipped card about a year ago and noticed quickly that any attempt to swipe with my card would be greeted with an error message and instructions to insert the chip. For all systems I've seen, it seems that if the merchant accepts chips and if the card has a chip, the chip must be used, regardless of any user reluctance.
- bradknowles 9y ago
  If it’s a chip card and the vendor doesn’t use the chip, then they are responsible for all fraudulent transactions. If they do use the chip, then the card issuing bank is responsible for all fraudulent transactions. This rule was supposed to go into place over a year ago. But most places couldn’t be bothered to update their equipment, so it had to be postponed. Even now, many places still can’t be bothered. Makes me care about them just that much less.
- 220V_USKettle 9y ago
  Most readers I have experimented with in the US will allow a swipe after 3 unsuccesful chip reads (inserting card in opposite direction w/ chip exposed).
anitil 9y ago
Haha you got me!
bigger_cheese 9y ago
Also Australian used to using Paywave. I traveled through Europe in January. My card was accepted without issue in most countries. There were a few countries like Greece where I need to use Pin. Outlier was in the UK where I had to sign and show photo id, which I found strange.
- Sean1708 9y ago
  > Outlier was in the UK where I had to sign and show photo id How long ago was this? Signatures haven't been a thing here for well over a decade. Also is Paywave just contactless? Because we've also had contactless for a fair while.
  - bigger_cheese 9y ago
    January this year, had to sign twice once at a Restaurant near Earl's Court and once buying tickets for Tower of London.
chrismorgan 9y ago
When I visited the US in late 2014, most places didn’t support contactless payments; a few did, but the operators didn’t necessarily know it, because basically no US cards supported it. I really confused a Subway employee near San Francisco by using it, and stopped to explain how it was that the transaction had gone through without him noticing.
RandallBrown 9y ago
Most chip readers in the US are incredibly slow. Like 10+ seconds just top read the card. There are faster authentication schemes that some of the readers use, but it's rare that using the chip is very fast, while swiping is always instant.

smelendez 9y ago

In the US, the biggest adopters of Apple Pay have been big chain grocery, drug, convenience, etc. stores. For decades, there has been a (somewhat class-based) stigma about holding up the line in these kinds of places by paying with check, government benefits, coins, coupons, or anything else besides cash and credit. There's also a separate, arguably more deserved stigma about entitled people causing trouble by using unnecessary technology. These together, along with a reluctance to cause trouble for low-wage clerks, make people reluctant to risk holding up the line by using Apple Pay. That means fewer people even try Apple Pay, so fewer other businesses see the need to make it available.

anitil 9y ago
It's not without problems in Aus as well - Only 1 out of our 'Big Four' banks actually accepts it. I suppose it's a bad example. However 'Tap and go' is so widely adopted that I haven't carried cash in months and I know people that legitimately don't know their own PIN
- ajdlinux 9y ago
  Contactless payment is so widely adopted that it's given me no particular reason to use Google Pay or any other mobile payment system as they're not particularly better from just using my card...
jghn 9y ago
What? In my experience Apple Pay is faster than other payment methods. In what way do you see it as slower?
- Uehreka 9y ago
  It might be faster if it works. If you try it and it doesn’t work and the cashier tries to help and then you have to go back to using a credit card anyway, it’s slow and people get annoyed. If that reliably didn’t happen, things would be fine. Unfortunately, payment processing in the US (or at least in Maryland where I live) is a mess: - Point-of-sale devices are frequently broken, with post-it notes taped over the chip slot saying “CHIP READER DISABLED”. I’ve dealt with buggy readers that force you to swipe, then go “Oh that’s a chip card, insert it!”, then when you insert it they go “Chip not supported, reverting to swipe as a backup method”. We’re struggling enough with the basics. - I’ve seen stores that put a “We accept ApplePay” sign in their window, but when you go in, it’s a gamble as to whether all the dependencies from the reader to the network to the payment processors are working today. When I’ve asked cashiers, their responses range from a despondent “I just don’t know anymore” to a cautious “We have it but I haven’t seen anyone use it in a while.” - Complicating all of this is the fact that all of the POS devices in my area look identical, whether they support NFC payments or not. I have a hunch that the hardware vendor just ships NFC-capable units to everyone, but only turns them on in certain conditions (maybe related to the type of contract the merchant has?) If anyone has plumbed the depths of this issue and can explain what’s going on, I’d appreciate it.