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Can I just say that what I really want is a mirrorless that is shaped more like a pistol than a traditional camera? I have a 5DSR and a bunch of lenses, and d

Can I just say that what I really want is a mirrorless that is shaped more like a pistol than a traditional camera? I have a 5DSR and a bunch of lenses, and don’t get me wrong, it is a fantastic camera...but, innovation in the form factor of cameras would be a welcome change. The existing industrial design is overly informed by the constraints of a roll of film, but, is not either the most ergonomic or the most stable position to hold a camera. We could do much better if we’d give it up. Small size mirrorless bodies really show what’s wrong with the current style, too. They’re difficult to hold on to, and the buttons are virtually all dual purpose. At least the 5D has a nice grip, but with any kind of telephoto it becomes pretty awkward to stabilize. Finally, with a “pistol format” camera, you can extend the viewfinder back from the lens, which can let you keep the existing big lenses and sensors but make an overall smaller package (the components move into the grip). This shallow sensor-lens depth is the main impediment to putting full frame glass and sensors into the standard small size mirrorless bodies. As has been cited elsewhere in this thread, smaller glass with higher density sensors is not a long term solution. Big glass does have a lot of advantages for high end photographs.

coldtea 9y ago
>Can I just say that what I really want is a mirrorless that is shaped more like a pistol than a traditional camera? I can see how that would be great for taking pictures at airports and major crowded events -- especially if one is black or middle-eastern... Seriously, what would the improvement be? It would be tedious to hold pistol-like, and more shaky than current designs. And it's not like it hasn't been tried (e.g. old 8mm film cameras were like that). >As has been cited elsewhere in this thread, smaller glass with higher density sensors is not a long term solution. It has already eclipsed bigger glass. And not just smaller glass, but the tiny kind of glass in mobile phones (sub 1"). For most people, that's it, and bigger glass is only for specialists and enthusiasts (trucks vs cars -- for most people the mobile camera is their car, and pro cameras are trucks for limited people). And of course it's only gonna get better -- an major mobile phone with like 1" sensors (plus all the processing advancements inside due to the crazily better than even a pro DSLR/mirroless processor) gonna wipe out what's remaining from the compact market too.
- abakker 9y ago
  A pistol grip is more comfortable and more stable to me, so, that is my evidence. I was actually thinking of the RC car controllers or power tools. Your hand is strong in that configuration vs a standard camera. We seem to have fallen a long way as a society though that I can’t discount your worry that the police will kill you for taking photos with an odd shaped camera. Specifically, though, I was talking about high end cameras. There are some high capability cameras in bodies that really make them unpleasant to use. The a7r in particular. Great results, but terrible ergonomics. And, there’s a reason people still use canon lenses on Sony cameras. I agree on mobile phones though, my iphoneX is where I take almost all non critical photos. If only I had a flash sync I’d be in good shape.
  - coldtea 9y ago
    >I was actually thinking of the RC car controllers or power tools. Your hand is strong in that configuration vs a standard camera. For the former, it doesn't matter if you're a little shaky, and for the latter, it's expected to be shaky (the power tool generates shake). So not sure if those are the best examples for camera design based on that (and power tools can tire your hands if hold for an extended period of time). >Specifically, though, I was talking about high end cameras. There are some high capability cameras in bodies that really make them unpleasant to use. The a7r in particular. Great results, but terrible ergonomics. And, there’s a reason people still use canon lenses on Sony cameras. That I agree with, but I'm not sold on the pistol grip. Perhaps if it also has a shoulder mount -- like video dslr pisto-like grips to stabilize it.
    - abakker 9y ago
      Rifle grip would be nice. I’m certainly steadier with a rifle than a camera. So much for not getting killed by the police though. Try mounting a handle to your tripod mount once or twice. I think you’ll be surprised how well it works. (Use a remote trigger in your left hand).
  - eitally 9y ago
    I use a body extension on my A7Rii, if that helps. https://www.amazon.com/J-B-Camera-Designs-Grip-Base-A7RII/dp/B00XPYRPJM https://www.amazon.com/J-B-Camera-Designs-Grip-Base-A7RII/dp... It does seem... nonsensical... for Canon to have shrunk the body on a camera that uses standard sized lenses. My daily carry lens is the 28-70 F2.8 and there's no way I could comfortably carry that without a body extension to grip.
toomanybeersies 9y ago
Photographers already have enough problems being mistaken for gunmen [1][2] without cameras actually looking like guns. If you really want a pistol grip, they do sell what is essentially a rifle stock for a camera [3]. All you'd need to do is attach a remote shutter release to your pistol grip and you're be good to go. [1] https://petapixel.com/2017/09/05/news-photographer-shot-cop-mistook-camera-tripod-gun/ https://petapixel.com/2017/09/05/news-photographer-shot-cop-... [2] https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/bizarre-scenes-as-stargazing-photographer-sparks-armed-garda-response-on-kerry-beach-36753668.html https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/bizarre-scenes-as-star... [3] https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/554798-REG/Stedi_Stock_SSSB_SSSB_Stedi_Stock_Shoulder.html https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/554798-REG/Stedi_Stoc...
deftturtle 9y ago
People who come from DSLRs and then whine about Sony ergonomics should give film cameras a fair shake. I think it's a familiarity thing, and most people shoot zooms from what I've seen. After shooting film cameras predominantly for over a year, my transition to a Sony a7 has been amazing. It's so tiny that it fits in my jacket chest pocket. Small camera means I have it with me more often and can take more photos. In terms of size and balance, I find it similar to my film kits. Try shooting prime lenses instead of zooms. By cutting down your lens, you have to change your image by walking around instead of zooming, and I find it to be a more pleasant experience. Besides, primes have a faster max aperture than zooms, so they are amazing in low light. Zooms are distracting, heavy, and obnoxious. Useful for sports and potentially some journalism, but for portraits, art, and street shooting, a few primes are my favorite way to go. 28mm, 40mm, and maybe up to an 85. But I tend to stick with 40mm and 57mm primes for a day out on the street. Quite compact, especially the 40mm.
- abakker 9y ago
  I have only 3 lenses: 14mm Rokinon, 40mm canon pancake, and a Canon 70-200L II. I used to have a 24-70 gen 1, but sold it because it couldn't keep up with the 5DSr sensor. I always meant to replace it, but I never bothered. I would love to have the canon 11-24, but I'm only really interested in the 11mm end. I wish they just had a smaller, lighter, cheaper 11mm rectilinear. Agree about walking around, moving, rather than zooming. Zoom is nice, but I feel like it is a privilege to earn, and I'm never really sure if I've earned it. It does provide some benefits.

coldtea 9y ago

>Can I just say that what I really want is a mirrorless that is shaped more like a pistol than a traditional camera? I can see how that would be great for taking pictures at airports and major crowded events -- especially if one is black or middle-eastern... Seriously, what would the improvement be? It would be tedious to hold pistol-like, and more shaky than current designs. And it's not like it hasn't been tried (e.g. old 8mm film cameras were like that). >As has been cited elsewhere in this thread, smaller glass with higher density sensors is not a long term solution. It has already eclipsed bigger glass. And not just smaller glass, but the tiny kind of glass in mobile phones (sub 1"). For most people, that's it, and bigger glass is only for specialists and enthusiasts (trucks vs cars -- for most people the mobile camera is their car, and pro cameras are trucks for limited people). And of course it's only gonna get better -- an major mobile phone with like 1" sensors (plus all the processing advancements inside due to the crazily better than even a pro DSLR/mirroless processor) gonna wipe out what's remaining from the compact market too.

abakker 9y ago
A pistol grip is more comfortable and more stable to me, so, that is my evidence. I was actually thinking of the RC car controllers or power tools. Your hand is strong in that configuration vs a standard camera. We seem to have fallen a long way as a society though that I can’t discount your worry that the police will kill you for taking photos with an odd shaped camera. Specifically, though, I was talking about high end cameras. There are some high capability cameras in bodies that really make them unpleasant to use. The a7r in particular. Great results, but terrible ergonomics. And, there’s a reason people still use canon lenses on Sony cameras. I agree on mobile phones though, my iphoneX is where I take almost all non critical photos. If only I had a flash sync I’d be in good shape.
- coldtea 9y ago
  >I was actually thinking of the RC car controllers or power tools. Your hand is strong in that configuration vs a standard camera. For the former, it doesn't matter if you're a little shaky, and for the latter, it's expected to be shaky (the power tool generates shake). So not sure if those are the best examples for camera design based on that (and power tools can tire your hands if hold for an extended period of time). >Specifically, though, I was talking about high end cameras. There are some high capability cameras in bodies that really make them unpleasant to use. The a7r in particular. Great results, but terrible ergonomics. And, there’s a reason people still use canon lenses on Sony cameras. That I agree with, but I'm not sold on the pistol grip. Perhaps if it also has a shoulder mount -- like video dslr pisto-like grips to stabilize it.
  - abakker 9y ago
    Rifle grip would be nice. I’m certainly steadier with a rifle than a camera. So much for not getting killed by the police though. Try mounting a handle to your tripod mount once or twice. I think you’ll be surprised how well it works. (Use a remote trigger in your left hand).
- eitally 9y ago
  I use a body extension on my A7Rii, if that helps. https://www.amazon.com/J-B-Camera-Designs-Grip-Base-A7RII/dp/B00XPYRPJM https://www.amazon.com/J-B-Camera-Designs-Grip-Base-A7RII/dp... It does seem... nonsensical... for Canon to have shrunk the body on a camera that uses standard sized lenses. My daily carry lens is the 28-70 F2.8 and there's no way I could comfortably carry that without a body extension to grip.

toomanybeersies 9y ago

Photographers already have enough problems being mistaken for gunmen [1][2] without cameras actually looking like guns. If you really want a pistol grip, they do sell what is essentially a rifle stock for a camera [3]. All you'd need to do is attach a remote shutter release to your pistol grip and you're be good to go. [1] https://petapixel.com/2017/09/05/news-photographer-shot-cop-mistook-camera-tripod-gun/ https://petapixel.com/2017/09/05/news-photographer-shot-cop-... [2] https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/bizarre-scenes-as-stargazing-photographer-sparks-armed-garda-response-on-kerry-beach-36753668.html https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/bizarre-scenes-as-star... [3] https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/554798-REG/Stedi_Stock_SSSB_SSSB_Stedi_Stock_Shoulder.html https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/554798-REG/Stedi_Stoc...

deftturtle 9y ago

People who come from DSLRs and then whine about Sony ergonomics should give film cameras a fair shake. I think it's a familiarity thing, and most people shoot zooms from what I've seen. After shooting film cameras predominantly for over a year, my transition to a Sony a7 has been amazing. It's so tiny that it fits in my jacket chest pocket. Small camera means I have it with me more often and can take more photos. In terms of size and balance, I find it similar to my film kits. Try shooting prime lenses instead of zooms. By cutting down your lens, you have to change your image by walking around instead of zooming, and I find it to be a more pleasant experience. Besides, primes have a faster max aperture than zooms, so they are amazing in low light. Zooms are distracting, heavy, and obnoxious. Useful for sports and potentially some journalism, but for portraits, art, and street shooting, a few primes are my favorite way to go. 28mm, 40mm, and maybe up to an 85. But I tend to stick with 40mm and 57mm primes for a day out on the street. Quite compact, especially the 40mm.

abakker 9y ago
I have only 3 lenses: 14mm Rokinon, 40mm canon pancake, and a Canon 70-200L II. I used to have a 24-70 gen 1, but sold it because it couldn't keep up with the 5DSr sensor. I always meant to replace it, but I never bothered. I would love to have the canon 11-24, but I'm only really interested in the 11mm end. I wish they just had a smaller, lighter, cheaper 11mm rectilinear. Agree about walking around, moving, rather than zooming. Zoom is nice, but I feel like it is a privilege to earn, and I'm never really sure if I've earned it. It does provide some benefits.