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Sorry to say it, but your written English reads very stilted to me, a native (British) English speaker. Assuming your spoken English is a similar level, your Eu

Sorry to say it, but your written English reads very stilted to me, a native (British) English speaker. Assuming your spoken English is a similar level, your European colleagues are right - it is clear in the sense that it is easy to understand what you are trying to say. But your word choice and grammar are a very long way away from a native speaker. If you do have a desire to sound more natural in the way you use English, I would suggest you actually take the advice to listen to the way native speakers use the language and try to copy what they do. At the moment you sound much more like a tourist than you think you do.

bayindirh 9y ago
Actually my language skills, regardless of language, varies according to my mood and energy, and it's late here. However, this is not to dismiss your comment as moot or anything, I'll keep this in mind. Thanks for the heads up.
- 18pfsmt 9y ago
  Your English is fine and way better than my 2nd language skills. Unless you are going to become a con man or a spy, I wouldn't give it another thought.
- zawerf 9y ago
  I am a non-native speaker so I tried combing through a few of your comments to see how a native speaker might be able to pick you out as a non-native. > listen a little more attentive attentively > will sharpen you in daily English "sharpen" should be applied to the skill, not the person? ("sharpen your daily English") > Becoming fluent becomes after becoming familiar. "becomes after" sounds weird. Maybe "follows" or "comes". > very clearly speaking guy clear speaking But I think the most glaring issue is the way you use commas (lots of unnecessary commas, comma splices, and parallel structure violations). All of this is beyond grammar nazi-ing since some of these are just word choices that I would've made differently rather than grammatical errors. Again, I am also non-native.
  - V-2 9y ago
    Yeah well, there's a lot to nitpick here... "language skills [...] varies" - a skill varies, but skills vary. Obviously I'm making tons of mistakes too, especially in a conversation (when there's no time to think and you can't go back to correct a phrase). Besides, being technically correct - in terms of grammar, vocabulary and so on - doesn't mean it sounds natural yet.
  - stordoff 9y ago
    > "sharpen" should be applied to the skill, not the person? ("sharpen your daily English") Possibly depends on the dialect. "Sharpen your skills" is probably more common, but applying it to the person (e.g. "This will sharpen you up") sounds fine to me as a British English speaker (though if specifying a specific skill in the same sentence you probably wouldn't use that form). > But I think the most glaring issue is the way you use commas (lots of unnecessary commas, comma splices, and parallel structure violations). Definitely true, but that can also be a trait of some native speakers, FWIW. Some of my sentences have a ton of unneeded commas and "loose" clauses when I first write them, until I refactor them to make them more correct. It's certainly not exclusive to non-native speakers.
  - bayindirh 9y ago
    Thanks for your comments. I'll take note of these, and will revisit from time to time. Most of the commas I use (before the "and" & "or"s) are Oxford Commas which dictates to use a comma before the conjunction if the sentences are separable. If the sentences are separable you don't use the comma. A more general rule is explained in [0]. My juries of my Master's and Ph.D. were very strict in this manner so I learned it the hard way. Now it's hardwired in my brain. Honestly I may be over using them, and will write more carefully. [0] https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/30516/should-i-use-a-comma-before-and-or-or https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/30516/should-i-u...
    - dragonwriter 9y ago
      > Most of the commas I use (before the "and" & "or"s) are Oxford Commas which dictates to use a comma before the conjunction if the sentences are separable You seem to be confusing the Oxford (or serial) comma [0] used after the penultimate item of a list with the rule on comma + conjunction (or semicolon with no conjunction) separating independent clauses as opposed to a bare conjunction separating dependent clauses. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma
deleted 9y ago
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aerovistae 9y ago
> a very long way from a native speaker uh....this guy's English is really excellent. it may be distinguishable from a native speaker by occasional poor phrasing or misuse of words, but it's really, really good. i think your criticism is overblown.
- Baeocystin 9y ago
  No it isn't, and you are not doing him any favors by saying otherwise. His usage is at a level I would consider intermediate at best. FearNotDaniel's assessment is accurate. There is no shame in not being 100% fluent. I'm multi-semi-lingual, in that I can read a newspaper, shop at a store, etc. in several languages. But I am only fluent in English. When I speak something else, my friends will frequently correct me. I appreciate it, because that is the only way to improve.
  - fenomas 9y ago
    > His usage is at a level I would consider intermediate at best. ... There is no shame in not being 100% fluent. Your notions about language proficiency are wildly out of whack. The speaker you're talking about is clearly articulating their ideas, coherently and without (one presumes) halting or grasping. That's fluency.
    - Baeocystin 9y ago
      You don't have to agree with me, and that is OK. But my opinion is based off of experience. You might be interested in http://www.govtilr.org/Skills/ILRscale5.htm http://www.govtilr.org/Skills/ILRscale5.htm as an example of the scales used when defining levels of competency.
      - fenomas 9y ago
        I'm sure you meant this reply to be constructive, but without describing the experience in question or saying which category from your link you think applies here, it doesn't convey anything. For me, my experience is two years as an English teacher and my opinion based on that experience is that someone who can convey complex ideas clearly and without effort is fluent. If you define that to be intermediate, what's left for "fluent" to mean?

bayindirh 9y ago

Actually my language skills, regardless of language, varies according to my mood and energy, and it's late here. However, this is not to dismiss your comment as moot or anything, I'll keep this in mind. Thanks for the heads up.

18pfsmt 9y ago
Your English is fine and way better than my 2nd language skills. Unless you are going to become a con man or a spy, I wouldn't give it another thought.
zawerf 9y ago
I am a non-native speaker so I tried combing through a few of your comments to see how a native speaker might be able to pick you out as a non-native. > listen a little more attentive attentively > will sharpen you in daily English "sharpen" should be applied to the skill, not the person? ("sharpen your daily English") > Becoming fluent becomes after becoming familiar. "becomes after" sounds weird. Maybe "follows" or "comes". > very clearly speaking guy clear speaking But I think the most glaring issue is the way you use commas (lots of unnecessary commas, comma splices, and parallel structure violations). All of this is beyond grammar nazi-ing since some of these are just word choices that I would've made differently rather than grammatical errors. Again, I am also non-native.
- V-2 9y ago
  Yeah well, there's a lot to nitpick here... "language skills [...] varies" - a skill varies, but skills vary. Obviously I'm making tons of mistakes too, especially in a conversation (when there's no time to think and you can't go back to correct a phrase). Besides, being technically correct - in terms of grammar, vocabulary and so on - doesn't mean it sounds natural yet.
- stordoff 9y ago
  > "sharpen" should be applied to the skill, not the person? ("sharpen your daily English") Possibly depends on the dialect. "Sharpen your skills" is probably more common, but applying it to the person (e.g. "This will sharpen you up") sounds fine to me as a British English speaker (though if specifying a specific skill in the same sentence you probably wouldn't use that form). > But I think the most glaring issue is the way you use commas (lots of unnecessary commas, comma splices, and parallel structure violations). Definitely true, but that can also be a trait of some native speakers, FWIW. Some of my sentences have a ton of unneeded commas and "loose" clauses when I first write them, until I refactor them to make them more correct. It's certainly not exclusive to non-native speakers.
- bayindirh 9y ago
  Thanks for your comments. I'll take note of these, and will revisit from time to time. Most of the commas I use (before the "and" & "or"s) are Oxford Commas which dictates to use a comma before the conjunction if the sentences are separable. If the sentences are separable you don't use the comma. A more general rule is explained in [0]. My juries of my Master's and Ph.D. were very strict in this manner so I learned it the hard way. Now it's hardwired in my brain. Honestly I may be over using them, and will write more carefully. [0] https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/30516/should-i-use-a-comma-before-and-or-or https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/30516/should-i-u...
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > Most of the commas I use (before the "and" & "or"s) are Oxford Commas which dictates to use a comma before the conjunction if the sentences are separable You seem to be confusing the Oxford (or serial) comma [0] used after the penultimate item of a list with the rule on comma + conjunction (or semicolon with no conjunction) separating independent clauses as opposed to a bare conjunction separating dependent clauses. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma

deleted 9y ago

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aerovistae 9y ago

> a very long way from a native speaker uh....this guy's English is really excellent. it may be distinguishable from a native speaker by occasional poor phrasing or misuse of words, but it's really, really good. i think your criticism is overblown.

Baeocystin 9y ago
No it isn't, and you are not doing him any favors by saying otherwise. His usage is at a level I would consider intermediate at best. FearNotDaniel's assessment is accurate. There is no shame in not being 100% fluent. I'm multi-semi-lingual, in that I can read a newspaper, shop at a store, etc. in several languages. But I am only fluent in English. When I speak something else, my friends will frequently correct me. I appreciate it, because that is the only way to improve.
- fenomas 9y ago
  > His usage is at a level I would consider intermediate at best. ... There is no shame in not being 100% fluent. Your notions about language proficiency are wildly out of whack. The speaker you're talking about is clearly articulating their ideas, coherently and without (one presumes) halting or grasping. That's fluency.
  - Baeocystin 9y ago
    You don't have to agree with me, and that is OK. But my opinion is based off of experience. You might be interested in http://www.govtilr.org/Skills/ILRscale5.htm http://www.govtilr.org/Skills/ILRscale5.htm as an example of the scales used when defining levels of competency.
    - fenomas 9y ago
      I'm sure you meant this reply to be constructive, but without describing the experience in question or saying which category from your link you think applies here, it doesn't convey anything. For me, my experience is two years as an English teacher and my opinion based on that experience is that someone who can convey complex ideas clearly and without effort is fluent. If you define that to be intermediate, what's left for "fluent" to mean?