4 ms·

And both seem to be completely missing the smartphone revolution. I think it would be great to see some Canon or Nikon tech in smartphone cameras, but they sho

by mtgx 9y ago

And both seem to be completely missing the smartphone revolution. I think it would be great to see some Canon or Nikon tech in smartphone cameras, but they should've tried to do it like 5 years ago. I'm not even sure they'd have that much to offer smartphone makers at this point, for the same reason Intel wouldn't have too much to offer to Qualcomm in the smartphone market at this point - these companies already have all the expertise and experience they need in the markets they already dominate. Smartphones have already almost completely wiped out the compact camera and "amateur" market for DSLRs. The predominance of ML accelerators in smartphones and new innovations (like using multiple cameras, or light-field tech, which Google may still use in future Pixels) is going to take smartphone cameras to the next level in the next 10 years.

fiddlerwoaroof 9y ago
I'm not sure this is true, you can only do so much with a camera small enough to fit into a general purpose device.
- mavhc 9y ago
  True, but where's the DSLR that cannibalises the high end by offering the software power of a smartphone camera combined with a APS-C sensor?
- ktta 9y ago
  It's not perfectly true, but it doesn't matter. I bought a Nikon DSLR (Most expensive purchase till then), thinking that I would take it around whenever I go out for fun trips. I did take it out often. I had some great pictures with it. No problems, not even today. But after I got the Pixel 2 XL, the pain points with DSLRs are obvious for regular shooting. They need to be charged, the SD card needs to be put in a computer to transfer files, and they're bulky so carrying them is a problem. So now, when I want to take a nice quick photo, I wish I had my DSLR, but I take the photo with my phone anyway, and I don't think much about it. I'm not saying DSLR are going to be completely irrelevant. But they're getting so close to the ideal picture quality for normal photos (i.e. no shutter speed or focus requirements) they're just fine. And the problem is they're getting better. They won't replace the full-frame cameras with have large ecosystems around them, but they'll make people like me think twice before buying a DSLR.
  - komali2 9y ago
    Interesting, I took a totally different perspective - as easy as it is to take a picture with my pixel 2, I get almost no satisfaction from it. No fun of choosing a good fstop, framing the shot, etc. Editing it later in Lightroom... The picture taking I do on my phone is very different I do on my dslr. As for battery life maybe I'm not shooting enough but I've literally never "had" to charge it. I don't even bother bringing the charger anymore, the damn battery refuses to die. I just charge it after a trip or once a month at home. Fat SD card means same for memory. Are you shooting in raw and editing your photos?
    - ktta 9y ago
      >Are you shooting in raw and editing your photos? Yep, I do the whole works. All of them in RAW, spending an hour or so editing in Lightroom (with favorite presets), have a flickr (like every other DSLR owner). But it stopped being fun after seeing that so many people do the same 'artistic' stuff, it doesn't feel like I'm doing something 'worthwhile' anymore. Now I just want to take photos and videos with friends. I find them more important. I used to care about the right focus, shutter speed etc. But with a phone, if you use the portrait mode, you get something like f/1.5, and if you don't, you get something like f/18. So that almost takes care of the focus problem for a lot of cases. When it comes to shutter speed, I use the high shutter speed when there are faster moving objects. That's a problem with a phone, but with enough photos taken quickly, one of them usually turns out good. People use low shutter speed only for long exposure shots like nightsky, waterflow, etc. which isn't a 'normal' photo. Low light is one place I guess where a phone can't exactly do as well, but as I said, it just needs to be good enough, and not perfect. About the battery of DSLR, often I don't take it out anymore, and between uses, the battery is so low that I have to charge it. So it leave it, and next time, its pretty much dead. Poor maintenance, but it again ties into if it is worth it.
      - ghaff 9y ago
        I still shoot with interchangeable lens cameras (both Fujifilm and Canon) but I do use my iPhone more and more of the time. On a recent trip to Europe, I had both my Fujifilm with a couple of lenses and my iPhone X. Looking through my photos on Flickr, there are some that I obviously took with the XE-3 given the low light conditions. But for many of the rest of my edited/curated photos, I couldn't have told you which camera I used without looking at the metadata. Probably if I blew things up big enough and really examined the fine detail, but not with casual viewing at normal sizes.
justicezyx 9y ago
I'd say they missed drone and new creative creator market. Smart phone is on a different market that they inherently have no experience or incentive to pursue. Drone and creative creator are what they should always be looking for in the first place.
120photo 9y ago
Different market. You could say they missed the market on medium and large format cameras until you realize they were in the 35mm camera market. Different optics and recording medium size compared to smart phones.
toomanybeersies 9y ago
I don't think that smartphones have wiped out the amateur market for DSLRs. If anything, it's increased the market. It used to be that people would have a phone and a compact camera. Nowadays there's almost parity between phones and compact cameras (at least low-end compacts), so if you want to get a second camera you get a DSLR or a mirrorless, rather than a compact camera. To add to that, DSLRs and mirrorless cameras are now cheaper than ever.

by mtgx 9y ago

fiddlerwoaroof 9y ago

I'm not sure this is true, you can only do so much with a camera small enough to fit into a general purpose device.

mavhc 9y ago
True, but where's the DSLR that cannibalises the high end by offering the software power of a smartphone camera combined with a APS-C sensor?
ktta 9y ago
It's not perfectly true, but it doesn't matter. I bought a Nikon DSLR (Most expensive purchase till then), thinking that I would take it around whenever I go out for fun trips. I did take it out often. I had some great pictures with it. No problems, not even today. But after I got the Pixel 2 XL, the pain points with DSLRs are obvious for regular shooting. They need to be charged, the SD card needs to be put in a computer to transfer files, and they're bulky so carrying them is a problem. So now, when I want to take a nice quick photo, I wish I had my DSLR, but I take the photo with my phone anyway, and I don't think much about it. I'm not saying DSLR are going to be completely irrelevant. But they're getting so close to the ideal picture quality for normal photos (i.e. no shutter speed or focus requirements) they're just fine. And the problem is they're getting better. They won't replace the full-frame cameras with have large ecosystems around them, but they'll make people like me think twice before buying a DSLR.
- komali2 9y ago
  Interesting, I took a totally different perspective - as easy as it is to take a picture with my pixel 2, I get almost no satisfaction from it. No fun of choosing a good fstop, framing the shot, etc. Editing it later in Lightroom... The picture taking I do on my phone is very different I do on my dslr. As for battery life maybe I'm not shooting enough but I've literally never "had" to charge it. I don't even bother bringing the charger anymore, the damn battery refuses to die. I just charge it after a trip or once a month at home. Fat SD card means same for memory. Are you shooting in raw and editing your photos?
  - ktta 9y ago
    >Are you shooting in raw and editing your photos? Yep, I do the whole works. All of them in RAW, spending an hour or so editing in Lightroom (with favorite presets), have a flickr (like every other DSLR owner). But it stopped being fun after seeing that so many people do the same 'artistic' stuff, it doesn't feel like I'm doing something 'worthwhile' anymore. Now I just want to take photos and videos with friends. I find them more important. I used to care about the right focus, shutter speed etc. But with a phone, if you use the portrait mode, you get something like f/1.5, and if you don't, you get something like f/18. So that almost takes care of the focus problem for a lot of cases. When it comes to shutter speed, I use the high shutter speed when there are faster moving objects. That's a problem with a phone, but with enough photos taken quickly, one of them usually turns out good. People use low shutter speed only for long exposure shots like nightsky, waterflow, etc. which isn't a 'normal' photo. Low light is one place I guess where a phone can't exactly do as well, but as I said, it just needs to be good enough, and not perfect. About the battery of DSLR, often I don't take it out anymore, and between uses, the battery is so low that I have to charge it. So it leave it, and next time, its pretty much dead. Poor maintenance, but it again ties into if it is worth it.
    - ghaff 9y ago
      I still shoot with interchangeable lens cameras (both Fujifilm and Canon) but I do use my iPhone more and more of the time. On a recent trip to Europe, I had both my Fujifilm with a couple of lenses and my iPhone X. Looking through my photos on Flickr, there are some that I obviously took with the XE-3 given the low light conditions. But for many of the rest of my edited/curated photos, I couldn't have told you which camera I used without looking at the metadata. Probably if I blew things up big enough and really examined the fine detail, but not with casual viewing at normal sizes.

justicezyx 9y ago

I'd say they missed drone and new creative creator market. Smart phone is on a different market that they inherently have no experience or incentive to pursue. Drone and creative creator are what they should always be looking for in the first place.

120photo 9y ago

Different market. You could say they missed the market on medium and large format cameras until you realize they were in the 35mm camera market. Different optics and recording medium size compared to smart phones.

toomanybeersies 9y ago

I don't think that smartphones have wiped out the amateur market for DSLRs. If anything, it's increased the market. It used to be that people would have a phone and a compact camera. Nowadays there's almost parity between phones and compact cameras (at least low-end compacts), so if you want to get a second camera you get a DSLR or a mirrorless, rather than a compact camera. To add to that, DSLRs and mirrorless cameras are now cheaper than ever.