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As long as users have the right to opt into collection under class d it would be fine. Keep in mind that products were successfully developed for thousands of y

As long as users have the right to opt into collection under class d it would be fine. Keep in mind that products were successfully developed for thousands of years without invasive data collection.

gingerlime 9y ago
to play devil's advocate though, I think product development accelerated greatly thanks to analytics and usage tracking, and lots of mistakes were avoided. This in turn can reduce the price for consumers of those products or features. Of course, at the expense of privacy, but I'm still wearing my devil's hat here for a moment. And I would go as far as saying people by and large don't care as much about privacy as they do about cost, or getting free stuff (e.g. Facebook).
- mantas 9y ago
  And a lot of those innovations were just to keep users more immersed while showing them ads. There was little innovation that actually helped end user in the past decade.
  - gingerlime 9y ago
    It certainly has been abused. But I think it’s throwing the baby with the bath water to some extent. People won’t be immersed in something that doesn’t bring them value. Some products would make money from users by showing them ads, others would ask those users to pay. Both would want to create immersive experience in my opinion. I would even argue that less immersive experience (getting bored or distracted) leads to ad clicks. Whereas a service that charges wants to keep users truly engaged.
    - ryandrake 9y ago
      Is “being immersed in the product” a real user need? That sounds like a company goal to me, not something I would want as a user.
      - gingerlime 9y ago
        When you watch a film, do you want to feel immersed in it? When you play your favorite sports game? I don’t think using a product is necessarily different. But let’s replace immersed with “enjoy using” or for it to be clear and intuitive. Some product designers and UI experts don’t need usage data, but I think a lot benefit from it to create a better and more enjoyable and clear user experience.
        mantas 9y ago
        Your point is correct for entertainment apps like video games. Last decade doesn't look like video games golden age though :( The rest of the apps - the less screen time they get, the better they're. I don't want to be "immersed" in Spotify. I want to find music I want and be done with it. There's little to help UI design in data. Best way is watching your users (or at least using eye-tracker) and then talking to them. Looking at cold data, you never know why somebody took that long at certain step or kept clicking around. Why did they click wrong button - is it wrong color/positioning, unclear label or they just changed their mind? It's hard to know when users are annoyed or when it's stressful for them either. Meanwhile data is great if you want to do shoot-in-the-dark A/B testing. Which is good to optimise for "more links clicked". But not so much for relaxed user happily doing his task in quickest way possible.
    - mantas 9y ago
      In most cases product should help user to do what they want quicker and let them go. E.g. if I come to Facebook, I want to get my cat pictures fix and GTFO. Yet it tries to lure me into spending as much time as possible :/

As long as users have the right to opt into collection under class d it would be fine. Keep in mind that products were successfully developed for thousands of years without invasive data collection.

gingerlime 9y ago

to play devil's advocate though, I think product development accelerated greatly thanks to analytics and usage tracking, and lots of mistakes were avoided. This in turn can reduce the price for consumers of those products or features. Of course, at the expense of privacy, but I'm still wearing my devil's hat here for a moment. And I would go as far as saying people by and large don't care as much about privacy as they do about cost, or getting free stuff (e.g. Facebook).

mantas 9y ago
And a lot of those innovations were just to keep users more immersed while showing them ads. There was little innovation that actually helped end user in the past decade.
- gingerlime 9y ago
  It certainly has been abused. But I think it’s throwing the baby with the bath water to some extent. People won’t be immersed in something that doesn’t bring them value. Some products would make money from users by showing them ads, others would ask those users to pay. Both would want to create immersive experience in my opinion. I would even argue that less immersive experience (getting bored or distracted) leads to ad clicks. Whereas a service that charges wants to keep users truly engaged.
  - ryandrake 9y ago
    Is “being immersed in the product” a real user need? That sounds like a company goal to me, not something I would want as a user.
    - gingerlime 9y ago
      When you watch a film, do you want to feel immersed in it? When you play your favorite sports game? I don’t think using a product is necessarily different. But let’s replace immersed with “enjoy using” or for it to be clear and intuitive. Some product designers and UI experts don’t need usage data, but I think a lot benefit from it to create a better and more enjoyable and clear user experience.
      - mantas 9y ago
        Your point is correct for entertainment apps like video games. Last decade doesn't look like video games golden age though :( The rest of the apps - the less screen time they get, the better they're. I don't want to be "immersed" in Spotify. I want to find music I want and be done with it. There's little to help UI design in data. Best way is watching your users (or at least using eye-tracker) and then talking to them. Looking at cold data, you never know why somebody took that long at certain step or kept clicking around. Why did they click wrong button - is it wrong color/positioning, unclear label or they just changed their mind? It's hard to know when users are annoyed or when it's stressful for them either. Meanwhile data is great if you want to do shoot-in-the-dark A/B testing. Which is good to optimise for "more links clicked". But not so much for relaxed user happily doing his task in quickest way possible.
  - mantas 9y ago
    In most cases product should help user to do what they want quicker and let them go. E.g. if I come to Facebook, I want to get my cat pictures fix and GTFO. Yet it tries to lure me into spending as much time as possible :/