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The article is still quite valid. The sensor prices might have come down a bit further than expected, but a full frame camera still carries a substantial premiu

by _ph_ 9y ago

The article is still quite valid. The sensor prices might have come down a bit further than expected, but a full frame camera still carries a substantial premium, especially when compared to µFT. But more important than the sensor prices are the consequences for the lenses, if you compare the sensor formats. The camera companies have solved the problems with vignetting and soft corners by designing a whole set of new lenses[1]. So a 35mm sensor performs nicely with modern lenses, but those lenses are quite expensive and most importantly, vastly bigger and heavier than their ancestors. So while a 35mm system might provide the maximum quality, for anyone with a budget, both financially and transportation-wise, the µFT system is more in the spirit of analog 35mm format, both size and performance wise, while the digital 35mm cameras drift more into the classic medium format field, in performance but importantly also price and size wise. [1] Meanwhile Leica managed to bring their digital M cameras to 35mm, getting excellent image quality even in the corners with a mix out of clever sensor design and in-camera post processing.

achamayou 9y ago
The M8 was an anomaly more than anything else, and probably used an APS-H sensor because Leica couldn't get a 24x36 sensor from anyone. It was a flawed camera in many ways, and they went back to 35mm as soon as they could get a sensor that size on the M9 (from Kodak iirc).
- _ph_ 9y ago
  Actually, both the M8 and the M9 use a Kodak sensor. They are even using the same sensor design, the M9 just having proportionally more pixels according the larger sensor area. But the individual pixel design is the same in both sensors (it is also the same sensor design used in the first FT-camera, the Olympus E-1, there of course only featuring 4.9 megapixels, due to the smaller sensor size). There were considerable difficulties getting a 35mm sensor working in a Leica M camera, due to the light reaching the corners of the sensor at very oblique angles. The M9 used strong offset microlenses on the sensor to fight with that, the more recent CMOS sensors are very "shallow" and thus less sensitive to the light angles. Also, the design of the infrared filter created a lot of problems. The M8 had a to weak one - which resulted in Leica giving free infrared filters for each M8 owner. The M9 one worked, but turned out to be insufficient stable, so many M9s got a free sensor exchange (fortunately free even out of warranty). With the M(240) and especially the M10 Leica finally seem to have fully succeed in making a true digital M. The M10 is especial, as the body size is finally identical to the film based M cameras, the M8-M(240) were about 3-4 mm thicker.
petre 9y ago
I used to dismiss Leica M as photo gear for Magnum photographers and rich snobs, but then they began manufacturing excellent lenses for the µFT system at more acceptable prices. If an M Summicron is 3.3k, the equivalent µFT lens costs $500 - less than the Zeiss Tuit Sony E lenses, which got not so great reviews.
- eropple 9y ago
  Leica also sells the Nocticron for a little over a grand, and that lens is a jaw-dropping MFT spin on the Noctilux. I mostly do video, but I really love MFT for photos too.
- CydeWeys 9y ago
  I assume this is the lens you're speaking of? https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/768816-REG/Panasonic_H_X025_Leica_DG_Summilux_25.html https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/768816-REG/Panasonic_... If so, it's sitting tied for the #1 spot of next lenses I'm getting, along with the Sigma 30mm/f1.4. The biggest hole in my lens collection right now is a fast portrait good bokeh prime. The Sigma is cheaper, and I like the slightly longer focal length, but it's also bulkier since it's not truly a native lens, and I suspect its image quality may not be as good. Do you have the Leica, and how is it?
  - SourPatch 9y ago
    If you're into portraits, the Olympus 75mm/1.8 is one of the best M4/3 lenses available.
    - Stratoscope 9y ago
      That is one of my favorite M4/3 lenses! (The others being the Olympus 60mm f/2.8 macro and the Samyang/Rokinon 7.5mm fisheye.) I have to show off a puppy portrait from the 75mm. Her name is Brownie, so this is called Pumpkin Brownie: https://geary.smugmug.com/Pets/Dogs/i-dNMQW2v/A https://geary.smugmug.com/Pets/Dogs/i-dNMQW2v/A
  - petre 9y ago

by _ph_ 9y ago

achamayou 9y ago

The M8 was an anomaly more than anything else, and probably used an APS-H sensor because Leica couldn't get a 24x36 sensor from anyone. It was a flawed camera in many ways, and they went back to 35mm as soon as they could get a sensor that size on the M9 (from Kodak iirc).

_ph_ 9y ago
Actually, both the M8 and the M9 use a Kodak sensor. They are even using the same sensor design, the M9 just having proportionally more pixels according the larger sensor area. But the individual pixel design is the same in both sensors (it is also the same sensor design used in the first FT-camera, the Olympus E-1, there of course only featuring 4.9 megapixels, due to the smaller sensor size). There were considerable difficulties getting a 35mm sensor working in a Leica M camera, due to the light reaching the corners of the sensor at very oblique angles. The M9 used strong offset microlenses on the sensor to fight with that, the more recent CMOS sensors are very "shallow" and thus less sensitive to the light angles. Also, the design of the infrared filter created a lot of problems. The M8 had a to weak one - which resulted in Leica giving free infrared filters for each M8 owner. The M9 one worked, but turned out to be insufficient stable, so many M9s got a free sensor exchange (fortunately free even out of warranty). With the M(240) and especially the M10 Leica finally seem to have fully succeed in making a true digital M. The M10 is especial, as the body size is finally identical to the film based M cameras, the M8-M(240) were about 3-4 mm thicker.

petre 9y ago

I used to dismiss Leica M as photo gear for Magnum photographers and rich snobs, but then they began manufacturing excellent lenses for the µFT system at more acceptable prices. If an M Summicron is 3.3k, the equivalent µFT lens costs $500 - less than the Zeiss Tuit Sony E lenses, which got not so great reviews.

eropple 9y ago
Leica also sells the Nocticron for a little over a grand, and that lens is a jaw-dropping MFT spin on the Noctilux. I mostly do video, but I really love MFT for photos too.
CydeWeys 9y ago
I assume this is the lens you're speaking of? https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/768816-REG/Panasonic_H_X025_Leica_DG_Summilux_25.html https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/768816-REG/Panasonic_... If so, it's sitting tied for the #1 spot of next lenses I'm getting, along with the Sigma 30mm/f1.4. The biggest hole in my lens collection right now is a fast portrait good bokeh prime. The Sigma is cheaper, and I like the slightly longer focal length, but it's also bulkier since it's not truly a native lens, and I suspect its image quality may not be as good. Do you have the Leica, and how is it?
- SourPatch 9y ago
  If you're into portraits, the Olympus 75mm/1.8 is one of the best M4/3 lenses available.
  - Stratoscope 9y ago
    That is one of my favorite M4/3 lenses! (The others being the Olympus 60mm f/2.8 macro and the Samyang/Rokinon 7.5mm fisheye.) I have to show off a puppy portrait from the 75mm. Her name is Brownie, so this is called Pumpkin Brownie: https://geary.smugmug.com/Pets/Dogs/i-dNMQW2v/A https://geary.smugmug.com/Pets/Dogs/i-dNMQW2v/A
- petre 9y ago