4 ms·

1) So do placibos 2) They're common while tapering too. 3) Agreed 4) Possibly true. What's unpolite about mentioning this? 5) Wrong analogy; depression only

1) So do placibos 2) They're common while tapering too. 3) Agreed 4) Possibly true. What's unpolite about mentioning this? 5) Wrong analogy; depression only increases would be analogous to increased cholesterol. What are statin drug side effects when quitting, from the drug. 6) The mechanism of action isn't even fully understand. You're absolutely wrong to claim "we would have seen them (long-term side effects)". Isn't there an article on ceiliac disease and how long it took to pin down on HN's front page now? 7) You mentioned in #6 we should already know. If I had a rant, about overly-confident individuals posting on forums. While I've no reason to believe you were intentionally dishonest, the over confident, "factual" sounding, behavior has the same basis as disinformation activists. Experience? Was on antidepressants. Had a horrible side effects unrelated to depression coming off them. Safe my ass.

cassowary37 9y ago
well said... in order, then... 1. Read the reference before responding; the study looked (in part) at antidepressant-placebo differences. Also - I can't prescribe placebo. 2. Got anything to back that up? 3. OK 4. Because it implies that some of the 'withdrawal' symptoms are actually recurrent depressive/anxious symptoms (which can include somatic symptoms). Which is different than arguing that all of these symptoms are a consequence of relapse/recurrence. 5. Well, one of the critiques of antidepressants is that, after someone is on them for years, depression can recur... but fair point, not a perfect analogy. 6. Fully understood? It's not even a little understood. What does that have to do with detecting long-term consequences? We have 25 year follow-up data with antidepressants now. Despite lots of effort to find otherwise, show me some solid literature supporting risk. 7. Yup. We should. And we should keep looking. We also agree that there's substantial harm associated with people confidently posting misinformation - so while I mostly lurk here on HN, I feel that 20+ years of treating mood disorders and 20+ years of pharmacovigilance research gives me the right to push back. Lived experience is critically important, but it does not trump data.
- phkahler 9y ago
  >> Lived experience is critically important, but it does not trump data. I would argue that for an individual, lived experience trumps all data - for them. Data is an aggregate of individual experiences. A single persons experience is a data point, not an anecdote.

cassowary37 9y ago

well said... in order, then... 1. Read the reference before responding; the study looked (in part) at antidepressant-placebo differences. Also - I can't prescribe placebo. 2. Got anything to back that up? 3. OK 4. Because it implies that some of the 'withdrawal' symptoms are actually recurrent depressive/anxious symptoms (which can include somatic symptoms). Which is different than arguing that all of these symptoms are a consequence of relapse/recurrence. 5. Well, one of the critiques of antidepressants is that, after someone is on them for years, depression can recur... but fair point, not a perfect analogy. 6. Fully understood? It's not even a little understood. What does that have to do with detecting long-term consequences? We have 25 year follow-up data with antidepressants now. Despite lots of effort to find otherwise, show me some solid literature supporting risk. 7. Yup. We should. And we should keep looking. We also agree that there's substantial harm associated with people confidently posting misinformation - so while I mostly lurk here on HN, I feel that 20+ years of treating mood disorders and 20+ years of pharmacovigilance research gives me the right to push back. Lived experience is critically important, but it does not trump data.

phkahler 9y ago
>> Lived experience is critically important, but it does not trump data. I would argue that for an individual, lived experience trumps all data - for them. Data is an aggregate of individual experiences. A single persons experience is a data point, not an anecdote.