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2017 Tax Software Developer's Guides and Test Cases

205 points by _jn 9y ago

transfire 9y ago
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! You know this country has gone right into the dink when TDD is needed to get our fancy calculators to do our taxes.
- dang 9y ago
  Would you please not post unsubstantive comments to Hacker News?
kss238 9y ago
A government website with a decent mobile version. Is this a first?
- AndrewOMartin 9y ago
  The UK Government websites are quite well known for their accessibility. Here's an arbitrary page as an example: https://www.gov.uk/check-income-tax-last-year https://www.gov.uk/check-income-tax-last-year
- mehrdadn 9y ago
  The desktop version is ridiculously huge though. I need to zoom to 66% to get a reasonable view.
- cm2187 9y ago
  You develop income tax software on a mobile phone?
  - kss238 9y ago
    No, but I browse HN on a cell phone.
- sly010 9y ago
  Courtesy of USDS [0] perhaps? [0] https://www.usds.gov/ https://www.usds.gov/ Edit: Realized this is actually Massachusetts and not federal.
- scarface74 9y ago
  The social security website (ssa.gov) is mobile friendly. I haven't visited any other federal websites recently.
- madeofpalk 9y ago
  There's been a lot of effort put into 'government digital transformation' over the past few years.
  - madeofpalk 9y ago
    You should see how I file my personal income tax, or my quarterly business tax account, in Australia. Completely responsive and accessible.
microcolonel 9y ago
Good to have it, better not to need it.
- JadeNB 9y ago
  > Good to have it, better not to need it. The same can surely be said about any problem software is meant to solve (that it's good to have test cases, but better not to have the problem); and such an impossibly general remark seems not to be very useful.
  - Cheezmeister 8y ago
    Flat tax. No more problem. At least, that's what I'm guessing was meant by the grandparent. That's all _I_ can manage to think at any rate,* is how many tax dollars and man-hours have gone into producing this guide, let alone the rest of the industry that's built up around the somehow herculean task of paying one's tax†, literal myriads of jobs which provide no real value to anyone‡, save that of relief from navigating the Gordian monstrosity that is our tax code: a societal negative value of epic proportions which (unlike so many of the real hard problems facing us today) could just vanish by simply bulldozing the rulebook. The rules, the exceptions, the loopholes, the brackets, the cutoffs, the deductions, the exemptions, the penalties, the incentives, all of it. Burn it to the ground. Everybody pays 30%, or whatever. Or perhaps everybody earning below $FAT_STACKS pays 30% * ($MY_SAD_SALARY / $FAT_STACKS). Or whatever. Better yet, let's tax consumption instead of production. Perhaps excepting food, clothing, shelter. Treat yoself? Have at it, but 40% of that Cessna goes to Uncle Sam. That 1.2kg of bling? Okay, only 30% because it doesn't pollute, it just looks stupid. Of course, none of that's going to happen. If I'm honest, I'd be a happy camper if only the Infernal Rich Suits didn't put the onus on _me_ to run my numbers through this Rube Goldberg device you cooked up and ostensibly understand. _Especially_ as you already have my W2⁂, heck thanks to withholding you already have my money! I never had a choice in the matter! So why the pointless exercise, either calculate the bloody number and send a check (or just venmo me yo), or just _keep_ it all, and please don't break my kneecaps. The guns are on your side, after all. But let's not get into a 2nd Amendment debate this early in the morning. ...whoops, I ranted there a bit. I might be a little stressed, something about this time of year. Can't quite put my finger on it. But don't worry, once April 20th rolls around, the herbal remedies⬫ will take effect and I'll be back happy as a clam. * (once past the initial "hmm, that's mildly interesting") † by "tax" I mean specifically income tax in the US. There are of course bunches of other taxes, but they generally work as intended and don't cause hypertension ‡ with apologies to tax pros, you're all fantastic humans and like no offense, but your job shouldn't exist or at least encyclopedic proportions ⁂ along with my savings balance, stock portfolio, credit score, marriage, er, relationship status, and what I ate for breakfast, because like it or not, Big Brother is manifest ⬫ which God gave us, which grow out of the dirt just like corn, which I, a grown-up, have the liberty to consume because I live in this great nation which was founded on such liberty. And justice. For all. Except the president. Because he's special. Very special.
sowhatquestion 9y ago
Very impressive. Does the federal government have anything comparable to this?
- craftyguy 9y ago
  That is the federal government.
  - hshehehjdjdjd 9y ago
    No, it is the government of Massachusetts.
    - craftyguy 9y ago
      Oops.
- _jn 9y ago
  That's actually what I was looking for when I found this. Sadly, it doesn't look like there is (but contact me if you find one!)
- juzffoo 9y ago
  I am looking for the tax information as well for a soon to be launched Staffing Agency back office software. Taxation is the last major thing to finish... Been collecting the information from wherever I can find... but would love to have one authentic source :)
hutattedonmyarm 9y ago
I found out yesterday that the German government provides a flowchart for developers wanting to calculate income tax
- W0lf 9y ago
  Can you provide a link to the mentioned flowchart as well, please?
  - germanier 9y ago
    It's on https://www.bmf-steuerrechner.de/interface/pap.jsp https://www.bmf-steuerrechner.de/interface/pap.jsp However, this is the calculation for the monthly (pay as you go) wage tax and other deductions and not the yearly income tax.
  - gorky1 9y ago
    https://www.bmf-steuerrechner.de/interface/pseudocode.jsp https://www.bmf-steuerrechner.de/interface/pseudocode.jsp There's a pdf version as well: http://www.bundesfinanzministerium.de/Web/DE/Themen/Steuern/Steuerarten/Lohnsteuer/Programmablaufplan/programmablaufplan.html http://www.bundesfinanzministerium.de/Web/DE/Themen/Steuern/... The problem is in computing the input values; it's quite hard to figure out without examples, except the most simple cases.
- lima 9y ago
  And they even provide an API you can run tests against, to ensure that your implementation is correct: https://www.bmf-steuerrechner.de/interface/schnittstelle.jsp https://www.bmf-steuerrechner.de/interface/schnittstelle.jsp
dokem 9y ago
Does anyone choose to write this kind of software?
- tonyedgecombe 9y ago
  Isn't most software a variation on this type of thing, payroll, invoicing, etc.
  - 0xcde4c3db 9y ago
    I doubt it's most software in percentage of code, but I suspect it's by far the biggest value of software to the economy.
- wingerlang 9y ago
  Maybe it is no ones life dream to do it, but sometimes you just find a job and it happens to be something 'random' like this. If someone asked me to work on this and gave me a huge salary, though, I'd gladly jump on it.
- CalRobert 9y ago
  Most software isn't somebody's dream. It's just dealing with "dumb stuff somebody's gotta do" because there's a paycheck. (See also - basically every profession. I don't know how many architects choose to design parking garages or dreary subdivisions, but hey, they gotta eat too.)
  - djrogers 9y ago
    > or dreary subdivisions There are a million little details that can go in to making a house more livable, pleasant, or delightful to live in. An architect that loves these details and enjoys knowing how much her work affects the lives of the families that live there would relish working on a subdivision...
    - CalRobert 9y ago
      That sounds like just the architect we need! I didn't mean they're all dreary; I was just trying to pull an example of a job someone does for the check and not because it's the pinnacle of their craft. For that matter, some parking garages are quite visually interesting. Most are horrendous, though, in my view at least.
codecamper 9y ago
this is so awesome!
T3RMINATED 9y ago
This is only for MASSACHUSETTS so please go behind a shed and shoot yourself, for providing no value to the internet just another garbage link for 1 state.

205 points by _jn 9y ago

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! You know this country has gone right into the dink when TDD is needed to get our fancy calculators to do our taxes.

dang 9y ago
Would you please not post unsubstantive comments to Hacker News?

kss238 9y ago

A government website with a decent mobile version. Is this a first?

AndrewOMartin 9y ago
The UK Government websites are quite well known for their accessibility. Here's an arbitrary page as an example: https://www.gov.uk/check-income-tax-last-year https://www.gov.uk/check-income-tax-last-year
mehrdadn 9y ago
The desktop version is ridiculously huge though. I need to zoom to 66% to get a reasonable view.
cm2187 9y ago
You develop income tax software on a mobile phone?
- kss238 9y ago
  No, but I browse HN on a cell phone.
sly010 9y ago
Courtesy of USDS [0] perhaps? [0] https://www.usds.gov/ https://www.usds.gov/ Edit: Realized this is actually Massachusetts and not federal.
scarface74 9y ago
The social security website (ssa.gov) is mobile friendly. I haven't visited any other federal websites recently.
madeofpalk 9y ago
There's been a lot of effort put into 'government digital transformation' over the past few years.
- madeofpalk 9y ago
  You should see how I file my personal income tax, or my quarterly business tax account, in Australia. Completely responsive and accessible.

microcolonel 9y ago

Good to have it, better not to need it.

JadeNB 9y ago
> Good to have it, better not to need it. The same can surely be said about any problem software is meant to solve (that it's good to have test cases, but better not to have the problem); and such an impossibly general remark seems not to be very useful.
- Cheezmeister 8y ago
  Flat tax. No more problem. At least, that's what I'm guessing was meant by the grandparent. That's all _I_ can manage to think at any rate,* is how many tax dollars and man-hours have gone into producing this guide, let alone the rest of the industry that's built up around the somehow herculean task of paying one's tax†, literal myriads of jobs which provide no real value to anyone‡, save that of relief from navigating the Gordian monstrosity that is our tax code: a societal negative value of epic proportions which (unlike so many of the real hard problems facing us today) could just vanish by simply bulldozing the rulebook. The rules, the exceptions, the loopholes, the brackets, the cutoffs, the deductions, the exemptions, the penalties, the incentives, all of it. Burn it to the ground. Everybody pays 30%, or whatever. Or perhaps everybody earning below $FAT_STACKS pays 30% * ($MY_SAD_SALARY / $FAT_STACKS). Or whatever. Better yet, let's tax consumption instead of production. Perhaps excepting food, clothing, shelter. Treat yoself? Have at it, but 40% of that Cessna goes to Uncle Sam. That 1.2kg of bling? Okay, only 30% because it doesn't pollute, it just looks stupid. Of course, none of that's going to happen. If I'm honest, I'd be a happy camper if only the Infernal Rich Suits didn't put the onus on _me_ to run my numbers through this Rube Goldberg device you cooked up and ostensibly understand. _Especially_ as you already have my W2⁂, heck thanks to withholding you already have my money! I never had a choice in the matter! So why the pointless exercise, either calculate the bloody number and send a check (or just venmo me yo), or just _keep_ it all, and please don't break my kneecaps. The guns are on your side, after all. But let's not get into a 2nd Amendment debate this early in the morning. ...whoops, I ranted there a bit. I might be a little stressed, something about this time of year. Can't quite put my finger on it. But don't worry, once April 20th rolls around, the herbal remedies⬫ will take effect and I'll be back happy as a clam. * (once past the initial "hmm, that's mildly interesting") † by "tax" I mean specifically income tax in the US. There are of course bunches of other taxes, but they generally work as intended and don't cause hypertension ‡ with apologies to tax pros, you're all fantastic humans and like no offense, but your job shouldn't exist or at least encyclopedic proportions ⁂ along with my savings balance, stock portfolio, credit score, marriage, er, relationship status, and what I ate for breakfast, because like it or not, Big Brother is manifest ⬫ which God gave us, which grow out of the dirt just like corn, which I, a grown-up, have the liberty to consume because I live in this great nation which was founded on such liberty. And justice. For all. Except the president. Because he's special. Very special.

sowhatquestion 9y ago

Very impressive. Does the federal government have anything comparable to this?

craftyguy 9y ago
That is the federal government.
- hshehehjdjdjd 9y ago
  No, it is the government of Massachusetts.
  - craftyguy 9y ago
    Oops.
_jn 9y ago
That's actually what I was looking for when I found this. Sadly, it doesn't look like there is (but contact me if you find one!)
juzffoo 9y ago
I am looking for the tax information as well for a soon to be launched Staffing Agency back office software. Taxation is the last major thing to finish... Been collecting the information from wherever I can find... but would love to have one authentic source :)

hutattedonmyarm 9y ago

I found out yesterday that the German government provides a flowchart for developers wanting to calculate income tax

W0lf 9y ago
Can you provide a link to the mentioned flowchart as well, please?
- germanier 9y ago
  It's on https://www.bmf-steuerrechner.de/interface/pap.jsp https://www.bmf-steuerrechner.de/interface/pap.jsp However, this is the calculation for the monthly (pay as you go) wage tax and other deductions and not the yearly income tax.
- gorky1 9y ago
  https://www.bmf-steuerrechner.de/interface/pseudocode.jsp https://www.bmf-steuerrechner.de/interface/pseudocode.jsp There's a pdf version as well: http://www.bundesfinanzministerium.de/Web/DE/Themen/Steuern/Steuerarten/Lohnsteuer/Programmablaufplan/programmablaufplan.html http://www.bundesfinanzministerium.de/Web/DE/Themen/Steuern/... The problem is in computing the input values; it's quite hard to figure out without examples, except the most simple cases.
lima 9y ago
And they even provide an API you can run tests against, to ensure that your implementation is correct: https://www.bmf-steuerrechner.de/interface/schnittstelle.jsp https://www.bmf-steuerrechner.de/interface/schnittstelle.jsp

dokem 9y ago

Does anyone choose to write this kind of software?

tonyedgecombe 9y ago
Isn't most software a variation on this type of thing, payroll, invoicing, etc.
- 0xcde4c3db 9y ago
  I doubt it's most software in percentage of code, but I suspect it's by far the biggest value of software to the economy.
wingerlang 9y ago
Maybe it is no ones life dream to do it, but sometimes you just find a job and it happens to be something 'random' like this. If someone asked me to work on this and gave me a huge salary, though, I'd gladly jump on it.
CalRobert 9y ago
Most software isn't somebody's dream. It's just dealing with "dumb stuff somebody's gotta do" because there's a paycheck. (See also - basically every profession. I don't know how many architects choose to design parking garages or dreary subdivisions, but hey, they gotta eat too.)
- djrogers 9y ago
  > or dreary subdivisions There are a million little details that can go in to making a house more livable, pleasant, or delightful to live in. An architect that loves these details and enjoys knowing how much her work affects the lives of the families that live there would relish working on a subdivision...
  - CalRobert 9y ago
    That sounds like just the architect we need! I didn't mean they're all dreary; I was just trying to pull an example of a job someone does for the check and not because it's the pinnacle of their craft. For that matter, some parking garages are quite visually interesting. Most are horrendous, though, in my view at least.

codecamper 9y ago

this is so awesome!

T3RMINATED 9y ago

This is only for MASSACHUSETTS so please go behind a shed and shoot yourself, for providing no value to the internet just another garbage link for 1 state.