3 ms·

This article completely ignores all of the reasons why the economy collapsed, and seems to just happily go on with the unstated assumption that a new currency c

This article completely ignores all of the reasons why the economy collapsed, and seems to just happily go on with the unstated assumption that a new currency can help. The truth is that Venezuela is dead, what you’re seeing now is just agonal breathing, not life. Society is divided, the economy is destroyed, so of course the currency based on that failed. How does inventing a new currency on top of that failed system help? How is it not rearranging deck chairs on the Lusitania? Maybe a few miners can strike it rich through money laundering, based on heavily subsidized mining, but that fixes nothing. Cryptocurrency isn’t an escape from reality.

crypt1d 8y ago
umm...what? The article simply talks about how Bitcoin is used in Venezuela to deal with the crisis, not how it is a solution that will fix all of its problems. Its obviously a pro-crypto website talking about utilization (which is something the space really needs), and there is no harm in that.
- dbasedweeb 8y ago
  It opens with a very strong claim. Bitcoin is a lifeline for citizens and residents of Venezuela. It actually does seem harmful to frame “pro-crypto” in those unlikely terms. Or in other words, how does inventing an abstraction layer on top of your original failed currency, obtained by burning fossile fuels, help the average Venezuelan trying to buy food and sundries? It seems more like slapping a bandaid on a sucking chest wound and claiming that you’ve helped the patient. I’m not interested in the “crypto space” and what it needs, especially in a discussion of an article purporting to describe what the people of Venezuela need. Unless those two things overlap to the degree that it’s a “lifeline” for those people, it reeks of the usual pumping of cryptocurrency that seems to pervade the “space” in question. Bmelton: Between the distortion of the original Economist article used in this article, and this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16783272 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16783272 I’d say that’s not what this is about. This currency is just a laundry for dollar bills.
  - bmelton 8y ago
    I agree with (some of) your original post in that Venezuela is an ailing nation at best, but at the same time, it shouldn't take too much imagination to see that if you can convert cheap (in Bolivars) electricity into currency that is accepted at a much better exchange rate outside of the country that one can have supplies shipped in. Moreover, we know that in currency crises, black and gray markets spring up like wildfire, so it takes even less imagination to picture a proprietor starting to prefer crypto currencies in exchange for tangible goods vs. the already bad -- and more importantly, still declining local currency. Despite the volatility of crypto currencies, and the fact that they've been on a hard slide lately, it's still a better depreciation than hanging on to Bolivars.
- jonas21 8y ago
  This article is selectively quoting parts of a piece in The Economist [1] in a way that's incredibly misleading. It seems like the author is trying to spin the facts in a way that is not supported by the original source. The Economist talks about mining bitcoin in Venezuela being profitable due to government-subsidized electricity. > Venezuela is the cheapest place to mine bitcoin in the world. Miners are arbitraging, buying an underpriced commodity (electricity) and converting it to bitcoin for a profit. On the other hand, this article tries to claim that large numbers of Venezuelans are using Bitcoin as a currency, saying things like: > Eventually, the people of Venezuela landed on bitcoin, the only currency that is censorship-free and digital, which cannot be confiscated or restricted by the Venezuelan government. This claim is unsupported by the Economist article. It also conveniently omits the conclusion of the Economist article: > President Nicolás Maduro does not like bitcoin miners, and the government’s ownership of the electrical grid enables it to locate, and crack down on, those using the unusually high amounts of electricity that bitcoin mining requires. There are no laws regarding cryptocurrencies, so targets have been arrested on spurious charges such as energy theft. Mining equipment has been seized by officials, some of which was then used for their own gain. While bitcoin can protect from the tyranny of governments printing money, other kinds of tyranny remain unchecked. [1] https://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2018/04/economist-explains-2 https://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2018/04/e...
Seksbaht 8y ago
Alright good, so we agree on your premise that Venezuela as a nation is dead. Now what? We still live in a world that accepts the Westfälischen concept of a nation, so what do we do with Venezuela?
- dbasedweeb 8y ago
  I never claimed to have a way to fix or save Venezuela, in the same way that I can’t bring the dead back to life. I’d still feel comfortable telling someone to stop fiddling with a day old corpse in the hopes of restoring life to it, and I’d question their motives. Especially if it seemed like there was profit or ideology at stake. I asked how this article survives the weight of its own lofty claims for a cryptocurrency. Do you have an answer? Wait, did you sign up for Hacker News a few minutes ago just for that post?
- tabs_masterrace 8y ago
  Well usually IMF throws out some loans to keep the boat floating, but Venezuela would need to be open for that path first. Some people think that comes at the cost of sovereignty, but what can you do markets are markets for a reason.

crypt1d 8y ago

umm...what? The article simply talks about how Bitcoin is used in Venezuela to deal with the crisis, not how it is a solution that will fix all of its problems. Its obviously a pro-crypto website talking about utilization (which is something the space really needs), and there is no harm in that.

dbasedweeb 8y ago
It opens with a very strong claim. Bitcoin is a lifeline for citizens and residents of Venezuela. It actually does seem harmful to frame “pro-crypto” in those unlikely terms. Or in other words, how does inventing an abstraction layer on top of your original failed currency, obtained by burning fossile fuels, help the average Venezuelan trying to buy food and sundries? It seems more like slapping a bandaid on a sucking chest wound and claiming that you’ve helped the patient. I’m not interested in the “crypto space” and what it needs, especially in a discussion of an article purporting to describe what the people of Venezuela need. Unless those two things overlap to the degree that it’s a “lifeline” for those people, it reeks of the usual pumping of cryptocurrency that seems to pervade the “space” in question. Bmelton: Between the distortion of the original Economist article used in this article, and this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16783272 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16783272 I’d say that’s not what this is about. This currency is just a laundry for dollar bills.
- bmelton 8y ago
  I agree with (some of) your original post in that Venezuela is an ailing nation at best, but at the same time, it shouldn't take too much imagination to see that if you can convert cheap (in Bolivars) electricity into currency that is accepted at a much better exchange rate outside of the country that one can have supplies shipped in. Moreover, we know that in currency crises, black and gray markets spring up like wildfire, so it takes even less imagination to picture a proprietor starting to prefer crypto currencies in exchange for tangible goods vs. the already bad -- and more importantly, still declining local currency. Despite the volatility of crypto currencies, and the fact that they've been on a hard slide lately, it's still a better depreciation than hanging on to Bolivars.
jonas21 8y ago
This article is selectively quoting parts of a piece in The Economist [1] in a way that's incredibly misleading. It seems like the author is trying to spin the facts in a way that is not supported by the original source. The Economist talks about mining bitcoin in Venezuela being profitable due to government-subsidized electricity. > Venezuela is the cheapest place to mine bitcoin in the world. Miners are arbitraging, buying an underpriced commodity (electricity) and converting it to bitcoin for a profit. On the other hand, this article tries to claim that large numbers of Venezuelans are using Bitcoin as a currency, saying things like: > Eventually, the people of Venezuela landed on bitcoin, the only currency that is censorship-free and digital, which cannot be confiscated or restricted by the Venezuelan government. This claim is unsupported by the Economist article. It also conveniently omits the conclusion of the Economist article: > President Nicolás Maduro does not like bitcoin miners, and the government’s ownership of the electrical grid enables it to locate, and crack down on, those using the unusually high amounts of electricity that bitcoin mining requires. There are no laws regarding cryptocurrencies, so targets have been arrested on spurious charges such as energy theft. Mining equipment has been seized by officials, some of which was then used for their own gain. While bitcoin can protect from the tyranny of governments printing money, other kinds of tyranny remain unchecked. [1] https://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2018/04/economist-explains-2 https://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2018/04/e...

Seksbaht 8y ago

Alright good, so we agree on your premise that Venezuela as a nation is dead. Now what? We still live in a world that accepts the Westfälischen concept of a nation, so what do we do with Venezuela?

dbasedweeb 8y ago
I never claimed to have a way to fix or save Venezuela, in the same way that I can’t bring the dead back to life. I’d still feel comfortable telling someone to stop fiddling with a day old corpse in the hopes of restoring life to it, and I’d question their motives. Especially if it seemed like there was profit or ideology at stake. I asked how this article survives the weight of its own lofty claims for a cryptocurrency. Do you have an answer? Wait, did you sign up for Hacker News a few minutes ago just for that post?
tabs_masterrace 8y ago
Well usually IMF throws out some loans to keep the boat floating, but Venezuela would need to be open for that path first. Some people think that comes at the cost of sovereignty, but what can you do markets are markets for a reason.