4 ms·

I take Wellbutrin and Lamictal (a mood stabilizer) every single day for PTSD and I wouldn’t really be able to function without them. I really wouldn’t call myse

I take Wellbutrin and Lamictal (a mood stabilizer) every single day for PTSD and I wouldn’t really be able to function without them. I really wouldn’t call myself or the psychiatrist who prescribed them irresponsible. I’d say it’s equally irresponsible to make a blanket statement about something that does actually help people in certain circumstances. That being said, there are a number of GPs out there who prescribe things without fully understanding the consequences. I’ve always had a GP refer me to a psychiatrist for any mental health issues, however.

vanderZwan 9y ago
I think the "irresponsibility" was aimed at the medical field, not at the patients. At least that was how I decided to read it. EDIT: Also, I think that even for the patients where the cause of the depression is not "chemical" in origin, that does not reduce the severity of the illness in the slightest. It just means that the causes may lie elsewhere (for example externally). I have been depressed as an indirect result of the troubles I got myself into due to undiagnosed ADD. In my case, yes, I needed medication to treat my condition, as well as therapy. But I did not need antidepressants, I needed medication for ADHD (and I just checked: lisdexamfetamine is currently not considered an effective anti-depressant[0]). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisdexamfetamine#Depression https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisdexamfetamine#Depression
- finaliteration 9y ago
  Ah, that does make sense. I just tend to be a little on the defensive about it because often the response I get is that I’m taking the “easy” way out through medication.
  - vanderZwan 9y ago
    > I just tend to be a little on the defensive about it Completely understandable! Most people seem to have such a frustrating inability to understand that other people can have very different experiences of the world to their own, and that those experiences aren't wrong. I am lucky enough that most of my friends do understand mental illnesses a bit better than the average person out there. Some of them who confided their mental health problems with me about the kind of reaction they tend to get, and it's just amazing how ignorant the natural state of the human mind is. > that I’m taking the “easy” way out through medication. Call me crazy, but I partially blame the dualist world view of the Western world for that, even if most people aren't even aware that they have been raised with a dualist mindset. This whole mind/matter division makes people think that mental problems have to be solved by thinking.
    - imcoconut 9y ago
      > Call me crazy, but I partially blame the dualist world view of the Western world for that, even if most people aren't even aware that they have been raised with a dualist mindset. This whole mind/matter division makes people think that mental problems have to be solved by thinking. Not crazy at all. I strongly agree with this.
- DanBC 9y ago
  SSRIs help even if the causes are psycho-social. Obviosuly the person also needs the other stuff too in those cases - fixing the situation; some talking therapy - but meds aren't useless. No-one credible talks about a chemical imbalance anymore.
  - Fnoord 9y ago
    Yep, though its the most common reason, SSRIs are not only prescribed for depression be it mild or severe. Anxiety is another rather common reason SSRIs get prescribed, and in my case Fluoxetine for ASD. Its anecdotal but I know that in my specific case it helps.. a lot! I can focus better, I am less anxious, I'm happier (though that is not my main complaint at all), and most of all I get less agitated. That doesn't just help me; it helps my significant other, our newborn, my co-employees, and my family in general (don't have friends).
    - vanderZwan 9y ago
      > don't have friends Hey, you can work on that! Especially now that you have medication that seems to catch on.
      - Fnoord 9y ago
        Oh, hmm thats kind of you. I understand that reaction. That probably sounded rather sad, so I reflected whilst writing this response. First and foremost I have one very good friend (my partner!), and a rather good relation with my mother (my father passed away, alas). I consider my mother like a friend, who given her age needs me more and more and this will increase. Same with my mother-in-law. That's both OK, but also a burden of stress. It appears difficult to become friends as you grow older compared to being young. I burned ships with my old friends because the relations were no longer mutual; no longer developmental ("stuck" or "grown different paths") or downright parasitic. Ironically, my last major friendship was my best friend wanting to use mushrooms with me at my place while I was no longer interested in recreational drugs. I was an avid gamer, but no longer have time to play games so all friends who I had who were into gaming I no longer have that in common with. That's a big blow in my social network and friendship list. The gist is, I find individuals inherently boring and basically I don't want [new] friends; they're a hassle and nuisance. Friends are a distraction, just like this very forum. At best, they're interesting, like this forum. At worst, its annoying to waste a Sunday on a birthday (with mindless chit-chat, annoying opinionated people, eating crap I could better buy/cook myself, and travel time/cost), just like you can waste an Sunday on this forum. Heck, like Facebook, rather. OTOH, you reap what you sow. I still got like 100 movies to watch if not more, 20 books to read, etc. My family and partner's friends and our newborn is more than enough. I need to focus on improving those connections first and foremost since my autism does put those relations under pressure both generally as well as incidentally more so. That plus integrating my autism diagnosis with my career which isn't easy in mid 30s. You could argue I'm not ready for it yet but I didn't start taking SSRIs to become more social. I do want to meet more people with autism, but that's out of self-interest, and a long-term project since right now I still feel overburdened due to the above (mostly our newborn).
dfsegoat 9y ago
I could not agree with you more: Both my partner and I have been on SSRIs / SNRIs before for LIMITED DURATION (3-12 mo). We would not have a healthy, happy, functional family without these types of interventions available. I found (I suspect like you) that having an psychiatrist - an MD, who can provide both cognitive/behavioral and pharmacological interventions - is the key.
- jdietrich 9y ago
  >I could not agree with you more: Both my partner and I have been on SSRIs / SNRIs before for LIMITED DURATION. Probably over 10 times between the two of us. You might want to consider maintenance therapy. The actual evidence for severe discontinuation effects is quite limited, but we have fairly strong evidence that maintenance therapy significantly reduces the rate of relapse. It's natural to want to avoid taking drugs indefinitely, but it's often a better option than a long-term cycle of depression, treatment, discontinuation and relapse. I suspect that a substantial proportion of people mistakenly believe that they're "addicted" to anti-depressants, when really they're just receiving an effective treatment for a chronic condition. They feel worse when they stop taking the pills, because the pills are doing what they're supposed to do.
ada1981 9y ago
Have you had a chance to apply for a phase 3 trial of MDMA for PTSD? Maps.org
- finaliteration 9y ago
  I’ve seriously considered it. I’ve done MDMA once in my life and it was honestly the only time I’ve ever felt anything even remotely close to peace and calm inside my mind and body. It was like this miracle evening without flash backs and anxiety.
  - ada1981 9y ago
    You may be able to get into a trial. In a therapeutic setting, folks are often able to release the underlying trauma and move beyond it. A great book about this is Trust, Surrender, Receive by Anne Other (AnneOther.com).

vanderZwan 9y ago

I think the "irresponsibility" was aimed at the medical field, not at the patients. At least that was how I decided to read it. EDIT: Also, I think that even for the patients where the cause of the depression is not "chemical" in origin, that does not reduce the severity of the illness in the slightest. It just means that the causes may lie elsewhere (for example externally). I have been depressed as an indirect result of the troubles I got myself into due to undiagnosed ADD. In my case, yes, I needed medication to treat my condition, as well as therapy. But I did not need antidepressants, I needed medication for ADHD (and I just checked: lisdexamfetamine is currently not considered an effective anti-depressant[0]). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisdexamfetamine#Depression https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisdexamfetamine#Depression

finaliteration 9y ago
Ah, that does make sense. I just tend to be a little on the defensive about it because often the response I get is that I’m taking the “easy” way out through medication.
- vanderZwan 9y ago
  > I just tend to be a little on the defensive about it Completely understandable! Most people seem to have such a frustrating inability to understand that other people can have very different experiences of the world to their own, and that those experiences aren't wrong. I am lucky enough that most of my friends do understand mental illnesses a bit better than the average person out there. Some of them who confided their mental health problems with me about the kind of reaction they tend to get, and it's just amazing how ignorant the natural state of the human mind is. > that I’m taking the “easy” way out through medication. Call me crazy, but I partially blame the dualist world view of the Western world for that, even if most people aren't even aware that they have been raised with a dualist mindset. This whole mind/matter division makes people think that mental problems have to be solved by thinking.
  - imcoconut 9y ago
    > Call me crazy, but I partially blame the dualist world view of the Western world for that, even if most people aren't even aware that they have been raised with a dualist mindset. This whole mind/matter division makes people think that mental problems have to be solved by thinking. Not crazy at all. I strongly agree with this.
DanBC 9y ago
SSRIs help even if the causes are psycho-social. Obviosuly the person also needs the other stuff too in those cases - fixing the situation; some talking therapy - but meds aren't useless. No-one credible talks about a chemical imbalance anymore.
- Fnoord 9y ago
  Yep, though its the most common reason, SSRIs are not only prescribed for depression be it mild or severe. Anxiety is another rather common reason SSRIs get prescribed, and in my case Fluoxetine for ASD. Its anecdotal but I know that in my specific case it helps.. a lot! I can focus better, I am less anxious, I'm happier (though that is not my main complaint at all), and most of all I get less agitated. That doesn't just help me; it helps my significant other, our newborn, my co-employees, and my family in general (don't have friends).
  - vanderZwan 9y ago
    > don't have friends Hey, you can work on that! Especially now that you have medication that seems to catch on.
    - Fnoord 9y ago
      Oh, hmm thats kind of you. I understand that reaction. That probably sounded rather sad, so I reflected whilst writing this response. First and foremost I have one very good friend (my partner!), and a rather good relation with my mother (my father passed away, alas). I consider my mother like a friend, who given her age needs me more and more and this will increase. Same with my mother-in-law. That's both OK, but also a burden of stress. It appears difficult to become friends as you grow older compared to being young. I burned ships with my old friends because the relations were no longer mutual; no longer developmental ("stuck" or "grown different paths") or downright parasitic. Ironically, my last major friendship was my best friend wanting to use mushrooms with me at my place while I was no longer interested in recreational drugs. I was an avid gamer, but no longer have time to play games so all friends who I had who were into gaming I no longer have that in common with. That's a big blow in my social network and friendship list. The gist is, I find individuals inherently boring and basically I don't want [new] friends; they're a hassle and nuisance. Friends are a distraction, just like this very forum. At best, they're interesting, like this forum. At worst, its annoying to waste a Sunday on a birthday (with mindless chit-chat, annoying opinionated people, eating crap I could better buy/cook myself, and travel time/cost), just like you can waste an Sunday on this forum. Heck, like Facebook, rather. OTOH, you reap what you sow. I still got like 100 movies to watch if not more, 20 books to read, etc. My family and partner's friends and our newborn is more than enough. I need to focus on improving those connections first and foremost since my autism does put those relations under pressure both generally as well as incidentally more so. That plus integrating my autism diagnosis with my career which isn't easy in mid 30s. You could argue I'm not ready for it yet but I didn't start taking SSRIs to become more social. I do want to meet more people with autism, but that's out of self-interest, and a long-term project since right now I still feel overburdened due to the above (mostly our newborn).

dfsegoat 9y ago

I could not agree with you more: Both my partner and I have been on SSRIs / SNRIs before for LIMITED DURATION (3-12 mo). We would not have a healthy, happy, functional family without these types of interventions available. I found (I suspect like you) that having an psychiatrist - an MD, who can provide both cognitive/behavioral and pharmacological interventions - is the key.

jdietrich 9y ago
>I could not agree with you more: Both my partner and I have been on SSRIs / SNRIs before for LIMITED DURATION. Probably over 10 times between the two of us. You might want to consider maintenance therapy. The actual evidence for severe discontinuation effects is quite limited, but we have fairly strong evidence that maintenance therapy significantly reduces the rate of relapse. It's natural to want to avoid taking drugs indefinitely, but it's often a better option than a long-term cycle of depression, treatment, discontinuation and relapse. I suspect that a substantial proportion of people mistakenly believe that they're "addicted" to anti-depressants, when really they're just receiving an effective treatment for a chronic condition. They feel worse when they stop taking the pills, because the pills are doing what they're supposed to do.

ada1981 9y ago

Have you had a chance to apply for a phase 3 trial of MDMA for PTSD? Maps.org

finaliteration 9y ago
I’ve seriously considered it. I’ve done MDMA once in my life and it was honestly the only time I’ve ever felt anything even remotely close to peace and calm inside my mind and body. It was like this miracle evening without flash backs and anxiety.
- ada1981 9y ago
  You may be able to get into a trial. In a therapeutic setting, folks are often able to release the underlying trauma and move beyond it. A great book about this is Trust, Surrender, Receive by Anne Other (AnneOther.com).