6 ms·

The use of these anti-depressants is extremely irresponsible. Most people who use them dont even have an inherant chemical problem. This will all be looked back

The use of these anti-depressants is extremely irresponsible. Most people who use them dont even have an inherant chemical problem. This will all be looked back upon as very stupid indeed.

vanderZwan 8y ago
> Most people who use them dont even have an inherant chemical problem. Which leads to another issue that worries me: this kind of thing will end up with a backlash that likely screws over those who really do need the medication.
thatsamonad 8y ago
I take Wellbutrin and Lamictal (a mood stabilizer) every single day for PTSD and I wouldn’t really be able to function without them. I really wouldn’t call myself or the psychiatrist who prescribed them irresponsible. I’d say it’s equally irresponsible to make a blanket statement about something that does actually help people in certain circumstances. That being said, there are a number of GPs out there who prescribe things without fully understanding the consequences. I’ve always had a GP refer me to a psychiatrist for any mental health issues, however.
- vanderZwan 8y ago
  I think the "irresponsibility" was aimed at the medical field, not at the patients. At least that was how I decided to read it. EDIT: Also, I think that even for the patients where the cause of the depression is not "chemical" in origin, that does not reduce the severity of the illness in the slightest. It just means that the causes may lie elsewhere (for example externally). I have been depressed as an indirect result of the troubles I got myself into due to undiagnosed ADD. In my case, yes, I needed medication to treat my condition, as well as therapy. But I did not need antidepressants, I needed medication for ADHD (and I just checked: lisdexamfetamine is currently not considered an effective anti-depressant[0]). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisdexamfetamine#Depression https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisdexamfetamine#Depression
  - finaliteration 8y ago
    Ah, that does make sense. I just tend to be a little on the defensive about it because often the response I get is that I’m taking the “easy” way out through medication.
    - vanderZwan 8y ago
      > I just tend to be a little on the defensive about it Completely understandable! Most people seem to have such a frustrating inability to understand that other people can have very different experiences of the world to their own, and that those experiences aren't wrong. I am lucky enough that most of my friends do understand mental illnesses a bit better than the average person out there. Some of them who confided their mental health problems with me about the kind of reaction they tend to get, and it's just amazing how ignorant the natural state of the human mind is. > that I’m taking the “easy” way out through medication. Call me crazy, but I partially blame the dualist world view of the Western world for that, even if most people aren't even aware that they have been raised with a dualist mindset. This whole mind/matter division makes people think that mental problems have to be solved by thinking.
      - imcoconut 8y ago
        > Call me crazy, but I partially blame the dualist world view of the Western world for that, even if most people aren't even aware that they have been raised with a dualist mindset. This whole mind/matter division makes people think that mental problems have to be solved by thinking. Not crazy at all. I strongly agree with this.
  - DanBC 8y ago
    SSRIs help even if the causes are psycho-social. Obviosuly the person also needs the other stuff too in those cases - fixing the situation; some talking therapy - but meds aren't useless. No-one credible talks about a chemical imbalance anymore.
    - Fnoord 8y ago
- dfsegoat 8y ago
  I could not agree with you more: Both my partner and I have been on SSRIs / SNRIs before for LIMITED DURATION (3-12 mo). We would not have a healthy, happy, functional family without these types of interventions available. I found (I suspect like you) that having an psychiatrist - an MD, who can provide both cognitive/behavioral and pharmacological interventions - is the key.
  - jdietrich 8y ago
    >I could not agree with you more: Both my partner and I have been on SSRIs / SNRIs before for LIMITED DURATION. Probably over 10 times between the two of us. You might want to consider maintenance therapy. The actual evidence for severe discontinuation effects is quite limited, but we have fairly strong evidence that maintenance therapy significantly reduces the rate of relapse. It's natural to want to avoid taking drugs indefinitely, but it's often a better option than a long-term cycle of depression, treatment, discontinuation and relapse. I suspect that a substantial proportion of people mistakenly believe that they're "addicted" to anti-depressants, when really they're just receiving an effective treatment for a chronic condition. They feel worse when they stop taking the pills, because the pills are doing what they're supposed to do.
- ada1981 8y ago
  Have you had a chance to apply for a phase 3 trial of MDMA for PTSD? Maps.org
  - finaliteration 8y ago
    I’ve seriously considered it. I’ve done MDMA once in my life and it was honestly the only time I’ve ever felt anything even remotely close to peace and calm inside my mind and body. It was like this miracle evening without flash backs and anxiety.
    - ada1981 8y ago
      You may be able to get into a trial. In a therapeutic setting, folks are often able to release the underlying trauma and move beyond it. A great book about this is Trust, Surrender, Receive by Anne Other (AnneOther.com).
jeremyjh 8y ago
So it turns out that your mind is implemented in your brain, which uses chemicals. There is no such thing as distinguishing "chemical" mental problems and "non-chemical" mental problems.
bm1362 8y ago
If you're interested in working for a startup working on improving the physical health -> behavioral health system integrations, checkout https://www.quartethealth.com/ https://www.quartethealth.com/ in NYC.
- jacquesm 8y ago
  The last thing we need is people who clearly lack a basic understanding of a field as complex as mental health to start working for start-ups in that field.
  - DanBC 8y ago
    It's bad enough that the ultracrepidarians post in these threads. I dread to think what would happen if they ran start-ups.
    - jacquesm 8y ago
      > ultracrepidarians I'd really hate to play Scrabble against you.

The use of these anti-depressants is extremely irresponsible. Most people who use them dont even have an inherant chemical problem. This will all be looked back upon as very stupid indeed.

vanderZwan 8y ago

> Most people who use them dont even have an inherant chemical problem. Which leads to another issue that worries me: this kind of thing will end up with a backlash that likely screws over those who really do need the medication.

thatsamonad 8y ago

I take Wellbutrin and Lamictal (a mood stabilizer) every single day for PTSD and I wouldn’t really be able to function without them. I really wouldn’t call myself or the psychiatrist who prescribed them irresponsible. I’d say it’s equally irresponsible to make a blanket statement about something that does actually help people in certain circumstances. That being said, there are a number of GPs out there who prescribe things without fully understanding the consequences. I’ve always had a GP refer me to a psychiatrist for any mental health issues, however.

vanderZwan 8y ago
I think the "irresponsibility" was aimed at the medical field, not at the patients. At least that was how I decided to read it. EDIT: Also, I think that even for the patients where the cause of the depression is not "chemical" in origin, that does not reduce the severity of the illness in the slightest. It just means that the causes may lie elsewhere (for example externally). I have been depressed as an indirect result of the troubles I got myself into due to undiagnosed ADD. In my case, yes, I needed medication to treat my condition, as well as therapy. But I did not need antidepressants, I needed medication for ADHD (and I just checked: lisdexamfetamine is currently not considered an effective anti-depressant[0]). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisdexamfetamine#Depression https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisdexamfetamine#Depression
- finaliteration 8y ago
  Ah, that does make sense. I just tend to be a little on the defensive about it because often the response I get is that I’m taking the “easy” way out through medication.
  - vanderZwan 8y ago
    > I just tend to be a little on the defensive about it Completely understandable! Most people seem to have such a frustrating inability to understand that other people can have very different experiences of the world to their own, and that those experiences aren't wrong. I am lucky enough that most of my friends do understand mental illnesses a bit better than the average person out there. Some of them who confided their mental health problems with me about the kind of reaction they tend to get, and it's just amazing how ignorant the natural state of the human mind is. > that I’m taking the “easy” way out through medication. Call me crazy, but I partially blame the dualist world view of the Western world for that, even if most people aren't even aware that they have been raised with a dualist mindset. This whole mind/matter division makes people think that mental problems have to be solved by thinking.
    - imcoconut 8y ago
      > Call me crazy, but I partially blame the dualist world view of the Western world for that, even if most people aren't even aware that they have been raised with a dualist mindset. This whole mind/matter division makes people think that mental problems have to be solved by thinking. Not crazy at all. I strongly agree with this.
- DanBC 8y ago
  SSRIs help even if the causes are psycho-social. Obviosuly the person also needs the other stuff too in those cases - fixing the situation; some talking therapy - but meds aren't useless. No-one credible talks about a chemical imbalance anymore.
  - Fnoord 8y ago
dfsegoat 8y ago
I could not agree with you more: Both my partner and I have been on SSRIs / SNRIs before for LIMITED DURATION (3-12 mo). We would not have a healthy, happy, functional family without these types of interventions available. I found (I suspect like you) that having an psychiatrist - an MD, who can provide both cognitive/behavioral and pharmacological interventions - is the key.
- jdietrich 8y ago
  >I could not agree with you more: Both my partner and I have been on SSRIs / SNRIs before for LIMITED DURATION. Probably over 10 times between the two of us. You might want to consider maintenance therapy. The actual evidence for severe discontinuation effects is quite limited, but we have fairly strong evidence that maintenance therapy significantly reduces the rate of relapse. It's natural to want to avoid taking drugs indefinitely, but it's often a better option than a long-term cycle of depression, treatment, discontinuation and relapse. I suspect that a substantial proportion of people mistakenly believe that they're "addicted" to anti-depressants, when really they're just receiving an effective treatment for a chronic condition. They feel worse when they stop taking the pills, because the pills are doing what they're supposed to do.
ada1981 8y ago
Have you had a chance to apply for a phase 3 trial of MDMA for PTSD? Maps.org
- finaliteration 8y ago
  I’ve seriously considered it. I’ve done MDMA once in my life and it was honestly the only time I’ve ever felt anything even remotely close to peace and calm inside my mind and body. It was like this miracle evening without flash backs and anxiety.
  - ada1981 8y ago
    You may be able to get into a trial. In a therapeutic setting, folks are often able to release the underlying trauma and move beyond it. A great book about this is Trust, Surrender, Receive by Anne Other (AnneOther.com).

jeremyjh 8y ago

So it turns out that your mind is implemented in your brain, which uses chemicals. There is no such thing as distinguishing "chemical" mental problems and "non-chemical" mental problems.

bm1362 8y ago

If you're interested in working for a startup working on improving the physical health -> behavioral health system integrations, checkout https://www.quartethealth.com/ https://www.quartethealth.com/ in NYC.

jacquesm 8y ago
The last thing we need is people who clearly lack a basic understanding of a field as complex as mental health to start working for start-ups in that field.
- DanBC 8y ago
  It's bad enough that the ultracrepidarians post in these threads. I dread to think what would happen if they ran start-ups.
  - jacquesm 8y ago
    > ultracrepidarians I'd really hate to play Scrabble against you.