4 ms·

>> Americans are citizens of their country whether they can prove it or not. Tell that to the undocumented immigrants. You forget that you have a birth certifi

>> Americans are citizens of their country whether they can prove it or not. Tell that to the undocumented immigrants. You forget that you have a birth certificate to prove you are a citizen.

zo1 9y ago
So then why don't they go and apply to be documented? I'm sure their foreign birth certificate is enough to prove their existence. Oh, that's right, it's illegal and would get declined. Hence the correct term: "illegal immigrants". The topic is complicated and touchy enough without it being muddled with incorrect terminology.
- rohit2412 9y ago
  I didn't want to fall into this debate, hence used the politically correct term. My point being, the other guy is arguing that USA doesn't require identity documents, which is laughable. You need SSN just to earn money in USA.
  - zo1 9y ago
    Sorry - I didn't mean to single out your specific usage of the term. Just a bit of a touchy topic as well because I find such language-manipulation that appears trivial on the surface to be a tool used to control discussion. And as a legal migrant, I find the right to be in a host country a privilege; one that should be earned rather than demanded.
    - rohit2412 9y ago
      I completely agree. People normalizing illegal immigration should openly support what they stand for, that is open borders.
- shripadk 9y ago
  Exactly the reason why India wants documentation via Aadhaar. We have millions of undocumented/illegal immigrants too. From neighbouring Bangladesh (nothing against Bangladeshi's... always welcome through the legal route). They have been enjoying the benefits accorded to them from Indian taxpayer money. Why should Indian exchequer pay for welfare of these illegal immigrants? Before Aadhaar, it was really easy to forge a Voter ID card and start receiving benefits that were due to the poor and needy Indian citizens. You can't forge fingerprints.
  - captn3m0 9y ago
    this makes me cringe because Aadhaar does not certify citizenship. Someone who crosses over the border today into India can get a aadhaar without any documents by: 1. using the introducer system (The enrollment center operator would gladly do this for you) 2. signing a checkbox that says they've lived in India for 180 days.
    - shripadk 9y ago
      You can do anything illegally but you also have to be ready for the consequences. Obtaining a PAN using forged documents has just a 10000 rupee penalty but obtaining Aadhaar card illegally will put you in prison for 3 years. Those who are obtaining Aadhaar illegally are setting themselves up for even greater trouble as their biometrics is forever stored with the GoI. Illegal immigrants will have to think twice before going down that route as once discovered will completely block their ability to legally enter India ever again (apart from a lengthy jail term and subsequent deportation). 1. http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/bangalore/illegal-bangladeshi-immigrants-held-with-aadhaar-cards/article21859950.ece http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/bangalore/illegal-bangla... 2. http://www.tribuneindia.com/mobi/news/jammu-kashmir/community/state-takes-steps-to-prevent-illegal-immigrants-from-getting-aadhaar/209709.html http://www.tribuneindia.com/mobi/news/jammu-kashmir/communit... 3. https://m.indiatimes.com/news/india/here-is-why-you-should-not-try-to-make-an-aadhaar-using-a-fake-id-274432.html https://m.indiatimes.com/news/india/here-is-why-you-should-n...

>> Americans are citizens of their country whether they can prove it or not. Tell that to the undocumented immigrants. You forget that you have a birth certificate to prove you are a citizen.

zo1 9y ago

So then why don't they go and apply to be documented? I'm sure their foreign birth certificate is enough to prove their existence. Oh, that's right, it's illegal and would get declined. Hence the correct term: "illegal immigrants". The topic is complicated and touchy enough without it being muddled with incorrect terminology.

rohit2412 9y ago
I didn't want to fall into this debate, hence used the politically correct term. My point being, the other guy is arguing that USA doesn't require identity documents, which is laughable. You need SSN just to earn money in USA.
- zo1 9y ago
  Sorry - I didn't mean to single out your specific usage of the term. Just a bit of a touchy topic as well because I find such language-manipulation that appears trivial on the surface to be a tool used to control discussion. And as a legal migrant, I find the right to be in a host country a privilege; one that should be earned rather than demanded.
  - rohit2412 9y ago
    I completely agree. People normalizing illegal immigration should openly support what they stand for, that is open borders.
shripadk 9y ago
Exactly the reason why India wants documentation via Aadhaar. We have millions of undocumented/illegal immigrants too. From neighbouring Bangladesh (nothing against Bangladeshi's... always welcome through the legal route). They have been enjoying the benefits accorded to them from Indian taxpayer money. Why should Indian exchequer pay for welfare of these illegal immigrants? Before Aadhaar, it was really easy to forge a Voter ID card and start receiving benefits that were due to the poor and needy Indian citizens. You can't forge fingerprints.
- captn3m0 9y ago
  this makes me cringe because Aadhaar does not certify citizenship. Someone who crosses over the border today into India can get a aadhaar without any documents by: 1. using the introducer system (The enrollment center operator would gladly do this for you) 2. signing a checkbox that says they've lived in India for 180 days.
  - shripadk 9y ago
    You can do anything illegally but you also have to be ready for the consequences. Obtaining a PAN using forged documents has just a 10000 rupee penalty but obtaining Aadhaar card illegally will put you in prison for 3 years. Those who are obtaining Aadhaar illegally are setting themselves up for even greater trouble as their biometrics is forever stored with the GoI. Illegal immigrants will have to think twice before going down that route as once discovered will completely block their ability to legally enter India ever again (apart from a lengthy jail term and subsequent deportation). 1. http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/bangalore/illegal-bangladeshi-immigrants-held-with-aadhaar-cards/article21859950.ece http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/bangalore/illegal-bangla... 2. http://www.tribuneindia.com/mobi/news/jammu-kashmir/community/state-takes-steps-to-prevent-illegal-immigrants-from-getting-aadhaar/209709.html http://www.tribuneindia.com/mobi/news/jammu-kashmir/communit... 3. https://m.indiatimes.com/news/india/here-is-why-you-should-not-try-to-make-an-aadhaar-using-a-fake-id-274432.html https://m.indiatimes.com/news/india/here-is-why-you-should-n...